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View Full Version : 22 Frets vs. 24 Frets: What are the advantages?



Ampguy
07-15-2012, 04:24 PM
At the sake of showing my ignorance, I am asking: What are the advantages / disadvantages of one design over the other? Obviously, there are two more frets on a 24 fret model and the scale is different from a 22 fret. But am I missing anything else? I have three 22 fret PRS models and one 24 fret PRS model. I really don't notice much difference in playing them. I am more of an amp guy (obviously), so what don't I know about these two concepts? I think someone once told me that if you are a strat player, the 24 fret PRS is less of a challenge to switch over to. I am asking the guitar aficiandos out there to enlighten me and perhaps others out there. Thanks.

dantedayjob
07-15-2012, 05:53 PM
The scale isn't changed from 22 to 24 frets on a PRS, it is still 25" scale. The bridge moves slightly towards the neck on a 24 fret guitar and the neck joins the body at a higher fret. This results in more hand clearance when playing in the higher registers than on a 22 fret guitar. It also hangs a little different, the 24 fret will feel ever so slightly longer. I prefer 24 fret PRSi for the reasons that the bridge position feels more natural to my right hand and I am not so crowded when playing in higher registers, even if I rarely go above the 20th fret.

swede71
07-15-2012, 06:47 PM
Personally i get lost on a 24 fret guitar,so thats a disadvantage :).I guess bass pickup closer to the bridge makes a difference.

dantedayjob
07-15-2012, 07:05 PM
Personally i get lost on a 24 fret guitar,so thats a disadvantage

Can you explain this? I never understood this statement... is it simply because the neck joins at a different fret, or what?

swede71
07-15-2012, 07:23 PM
Im not sure what it is dantedayjob,i guess it is musclememory from having played only 22 fret guitars for so long. :)I would love to own a custom 24 though,customs my fav.

dantedayjob
07-15-2012, 07:30 PM
Im not sure what it is dantedayjob,i guess it is musclememory from having played only 22 fret guitars for so long. :)

Interesting... I guess it's different for different people... what really screws me up is the size of the neck... if it is too thin or too thick I will get lost... or if I have been playing a Strat and then switch to a Gibson the shorter scale will mess me up... but having 2 more frets with a Cu24, or one less with a Strat doesn't seem to matter

Ampguy
07-15-2012, 08:01 PM
The scale isn't changed from 22 to 24 frets on a PRS, it is still 25" scale. The bridge moves slightly towards the neck on a 24 fret guitar and the neck joins the body at a higher fret. This results in more hand clearance when playing in the higher registers than on a 22 fret guitar. It also hangs a little different, the 24 fret will feel ever so slightly longer. I prefer 24 fret PRSi for the reasons that the bridge position feels more natural to my right hand and I am not so crowded when playing in higher registers, even if I rarely go above the 20th fret.

Thanks for the info. I knew that someone out there knew more about guitars.

veinbuster
07-16-2012, 04:27 PM
I have a hard time thinking in terms of advantages or disadvantages of one versus the other.
Personally I favour the 22 fret because I like having more of the string vibrating over the body. This might be a bias developed from acoustics where I'm a big fan of a 12 fret which has half of the string over the body, but I have convinced myself that the tone of the 22 fret is a bit richer - meaning more of the mid range harmonics. This might be different if I didn't tend to play mostly between the 5th and 15th fret.
I do have a 24 fret which I use maybe 20% of the time. Sometimes I just want access to those higher notes, especially when playing with a piano player mate who strongly believes that all the best songs are in the key of E - and it is convenient to have a full 4 octaves to duke it out with him.

cwhenke
07-16-2012, 05:22 PM
I agree with swede...I get lost on the 24-fretters. Everything is just in the wrong place...I know it's fractions of inches, but it makes a HUGE difference in the feel. And, by the time I get down to the first fret, it feels like I have to really stretch my arm out there.

CantankerousCarl
07-16-2012, 07:33 PM
I like the option of having two full octaves...but it's just that, it's an option, and I rarely take advantage of it.

When I started getting back into playing again, I became obsessed with having 24 frets, read all of the Ed Roman stuff, etc. about how the pickups cannot possibly be placed in the right position on a 22 fret guitar. Now that I have both 22 and 24 fret American and Korean PRS's, I call shenanigans. I like both.

I have short arms and I do find it easier to play the 22 fretters - my SE Santana and SE 245 are especially comfy because of the short scale length. I also find it easier to pull off artificial harmonics on the 22 fretters, maybe it's because of where I pick in relation to the pickup? Dunno...but I like that we have both.

LSchefman
07-16-2012, 09:04 PM
When I started getting back into playing again, I became obsessed with having 24 frets, read all of the Ed Roman stuff, etc. about how the pickups cannot possibly be placed in the right position on a 22 fret guitar. Now that I have both 22 and 24 fret American and Korean PRS's, I call shenanigans. I like both.

Yeah, Ed Roman thought he knew a lot...I always wondered about his medications...

Only Ed knew how to make a guitar. That's why his name is a household word among guitarists, why a Roman guitar is such a classic instrument, etc. I don't know what-all we were thinking playing anything but a Roman electric for the past 60 years. How could all those 22 fret guitars Gibson, PRS and even Fender made over the years possibly be any good?

If you studied what was known about aerodynamics at one time, you'd learn that a bumblebee couldn't fly, too.

mcbprs
07-17-2012, 03:04 AM
Have and play both 22 & 24 fret PRSi and in different scale length and can understand many of the comments above, I have on occasion in the middle of an improvised solo glance down and jumped to the 15th instead of the 12th fret when playing me Santana ( I tend to play 22 fret most of the time recently) but there are other things to take into consideration, how often do you use the extra 2 frets, the position of the neck pickup can make certain harmonics easier or harder (different on 22 and 24 neither better just different). Allegedly the 22 fret neck was supposed to give better neck body connection and sustain (my Santana & CU24 do not seem to understand this rule :-) ) So for me the differences are subtle and as I now play various guitars it does not effect me too much but I know back in the day when I had only one guitar that I played for hours a day I could play practically any note or chord blindfold the slight differences between my guitars has robbed me of that ability.

Fox77
07-17-2012, 03:28 AM
I had both 24 and 22 fret guitars. I prefer 22 frets because of the way the neck pickup sounds. To me, it sounds more "vintagey", more pleasant to the ear. True, the neck pickup will sometimes sound muddier on the 22 fret guitar, but if you have a decent pickup adjusted to the right height it should be fine.

And I read that stuff on Roman's website as well and tbh, I couldn't care less even if the scientists at CERN would prove to me that 24 frets leads to a better pickup position. :D

Rodicus
07-17-2012, 06:50 AM
An advantage with a CU24 is that you can tune down a whole step and still be able to play every note as you would on a 22 fret guitar tuned to standard. I've read people say that they get lost on 24 frets. I find the opposite. Given the extra fret marker I find it easier to relate everything I do on the first 12 frets to the next 12. I guess it's all what you're used to. I know the neck pickup doesn't sound the same because of the placement but when I turn my tone knob down to five and play some leads I think the neck pickup (59/09's) sounds amazing! I own a Les Paul and find it very hard to reach the 22nd fret comfortably. With my CU24 the 22nd fret is no problem! Still I always wondered why PRS made so many 22 fret guitar models. Is it because they are better than 24 frets? (Can't be, look how many CU24's they sell.) Or simply is there just a higher demand for them because majority of the population grew up on 22 frets and that's what most people want. Or is it because the CU24 is so bad ass that they don't need any more 24 fret models. I've always been curious. :)

tdarian
07-17-2012, 11:08 AM
I prefer 22 frets on a honkin big neck.

AP515
07-17-2012, 03:10 PM
It takes me about 10 minutes to switch between a 22 or 24. After that my fingers remember where they are. The neck pups do sound different but I like both. The neck pup on my Cu24 turned down to about 7 is bliss clean. The 57/08 in my Cu22 is PAF heaven dimed. Different sounds but both tasty. Enchaladas one night, pasta the next...

newfmp3
07-17-2012, 08:33 PM
Having just gotten my first 24 fret, I have been getting used to it over the past few weeks. First thing I notice is where my right hand rests in relation to the bridge. There's less room for my hand then my 22 fret guitars. This has forced me to relearn where my hand should be for muting strings and pinch harmonics and stuff. Some Van Halen stuff requires me to mute the E string but strum the rest and I find that the less room requires me to adjust my technique. As for the neck and getting up high, like others have said, even if you do not need the 2 extra frets, its just nice to be able to reach the 22nd fret so much easier.

There's defintely some "muscle memory" things going on too forcing me to look down more often. It's all little things really, and switching between the 22 and 24 only really takes a few mins to adjust. I'm no pro by any means, actually I probably suck, so if I can do it, anyone can. I do love my Custom 24 so far, just a gorgeous instrument.

LearnedHand
07-22-2012, 09:43 PM
.. I've read people say that they get lost on 24 frets. I find the opposite. Given the extra fret marker I find it easier to relate everything I do on the first 12 frets to the next 12.

Me too.

Boogie
07-23-2012, 07:01 AM
24 fret necks with birds get an owl. 22 fretters don't. :p

dantedayjob
07-23-2012, 07:36 AM
24 fret necks with birds get an owl. 22 fretters don't. :p


OWL FTW!

stonevibe
07-29-2012, 09:19 AM
I always thought the difference was where you placed the neck pup. On a 22 it normally halfway between the 12th fret and the bridge and so supposedly sweeter.

Plus with a 24 you get some extra notes and 'an owl...'

I have a 24 myself.

Clark Kent
07-29-2012, 08:17 PM
IMO it's all about what you are used to playing. Basically a 24 fret guitar only has two notes that the 22 fret guitar doesn't have so not much of a difference if you really think about it.

I feel like my big fingers do fit between the frets easier on a 22 fret guitar so in that sense it's better. Still for some reason both of my PRS guitars are 24 fret... I just can't live without the 24 frets without feeling restricted... I know it's just two notes.

CHARISMAFIRE
07-29-2012, 09:30 PM
I am clarifying the matter once and for all. The scale of a custom 22 and 24 is the same 25". The neck pickup is in the same spot on both gtrs, but the bridge and bridge pickup is closer to the neck pickup and the neck is longer on a 24fretter. The distance from the nut to the bridge is the same 25" for both gtrs. On a 22 fretter, the neck pickup is farther from the bridge because the bridge is in a different spot. Thus the neck pickup is "picking up" the strings vibrations in a less trebled, warmer spot. When a string is plucked closer to the bridge, the result is a brighter, more trebled sound. when you pluck it further from the bridge, the sound is bassier, warmer, dull and rounder, with less treble. The neck pickup on a 22fret sounds warmer because it is farther from the bridge, underneath a less trebled spot. This is not because the neck pickup moved, the entire bridge is moved farther from it. If you take a ruler and measure the distance between the bridge and neck pickup on a 22 and a 24, you will notice they are closer together on a 24, and farther apart on a 22. The distance between the frets on both gtrs is exactly the same, exept for the last two on a 24 which make the fretboard longer, not sqeezed together. 22 fret= shorter neck with bridge farther from the neck pickup. 24 fret= longer neck with the bridge closer to the neck pickup. The bridge pickup is the same distance from the bridge on both gtrs. The neck pickup is not, and sounds fatter on a 22fret gtr. Apart from this tonal differnce of the neck pickup, the difference in bridge placement and neck length is why the two feel completely different as far as playability goes. In my opinion, neither is better as to playability, its just what you are comfortable with. Other than this comfort issue, the advantage of the 22 is the sweeter sounding neck pickup, and for the 24 it is the two extra notes. ( and the owl )......Now to briefly addess the Roman arguement: It only makes sense for the open string. Once a string is fretted, the harmonic moves to a different location. Thus, the neck pickup placement error arguement due to harmonic overtones is a dead one. If every note had its own string and its own pickup, then maybe I could be convinced, but we are talking gtrs, not pianos. Thats just my opinion, and Ed had his too. May he, and this topic rest in peace......and for what its worth, I think the 24fret 25" scale length is worthy of a nobel prize, I love it!.......I think I need an aspirin, thankyou.

vchizzle
07-30-2012, 10:37 AM
I want an owl.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7677231040_8257ab962e_z.jpg

I forget who's pic this was from BaM, but I always loved it and had to save it. Hopefully someone can give him credit.

sergiodeblanc
07-30-2012, 10:59 AM
I kinda "grew up" with my CE24, and having a full two octaves helped me visualize the repeated patterns of scales on the fretboard a little easier,... and it just feels "right" to me.

Eric Thomas
07-30-2012, 07:32 PM
A (moving) picture is worth a thousand words....

As others have said, the position of the neck pickup in relation to the bridge is closer on the 24 fret guitars which is easy to see in this gif. As such, many players say that the neck pickup is out of the "sweet spot" and that neck position tones do not sound as good on the 24 fret instruments. I have never owned a 24 fret instrument so I cannot comment on that.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~ethomas/prs22vs24.gif

CHARISMAFIRE
07-30-2012, 08:44 PM
THANKYOU ERIC T!!!! That pic should clear this all up way better than all my over-explaining.......I need to get a refund on my aspirin..... you ROCK, a million thanks man!

Eric Thomas
07-31-2012, 05:39 AM
That GIF has been floating around for years. I think it originated back in the old PRS Forum days, before the Birds and Moons forum.

Your explanation made perfect sense to me. It's just easier to see it than describe it.

Lewguitar
01-11-2013, 12:41 PM
I had both 24 and 22 fret guitars. I prefer 22 frets because of the way the neck pickup sounds. To me, it sounds more "vintagey", more pleasant to the ear. True, the neck pickup will sometimes sound muddier on the 22 fret guitar, but if you have a decent pickup adjusted to the right height it should be fine.


Hello everyone - this is my first post here. :D Just wanted to say that I agree about the neck pickup sounding like what I'm used to hearing on a 22 fret PRS, but not on a PRS 24 fret. On my CE 24 the neck pickup doesn't sound as full and the polepieces are not directly under the second octave like they are on my ES-335.

I'm looking for a nice CE 22 because of this.

LJD
01-11-2013, 01:40 PM
If it was up to me all guitars would have 24 frets.

Neeeyo
02-09-2013, 06:15 PM
It's been my experience that 24 fret guitars sound smoother on the bridge pickup than 22 fretters. Most 22 fret guitars have this harsh, buzzy, high end fizz that can't be dialed down. That trebly bite on the 22 definitely cuts through a band mix better than most 24 fret guitars from what I've heard.

Gtrlarry
03-07-2013, 03:52 PM
If you have ever met Ed Roman, he is a grumpy dwarf...

Dirty Bob
03-07-2013, 06:12 PM
If you have ever met Ed Roman, he is a grumpy dwarf...

Ed is now deceased.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
03-07-2013, 06:13 PM
Ed is now deceased.

Or is he...

tdarian
03-07-2013, 06:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BgzrfUA8lo

John
03-07-2013, 08:38 PM
I prefer the extra 2 frets, seeing how I actually use them on some stuff I play/wrote. I don't give a crap about the whole "ooh, the extra 2 frets and the different scale won't be the same as a 22 fret guitar" argument and stuff. Apart from the fact that PRS makes them both on the same scale (save for the Mardsen, Mushok, and prob. the Torero), I can adjust my playing accordingly.
That aside, given the extra fret marker on the 24th, I find it easier to relate everything I do on the first 12 frets to the next 12 as well. Plus, the owl inlay on the last fret is where it's at for PRS guitars. :P

John
03-07-2013, 08:41 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;56790']Or is he...

Yep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBFhvEQMPME

yankeebulldog
03-07-2013, 10:35 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;56790']Or is he...
"What will happen if you kill a leprechaun?

Killing a Leprechaun will undo whatever evil magic the offending leprechaun has afflicted upon you or your loved ones. There is a time limit to reverse the spell so act quickly. Rember the only way to kill a Leprechaun is to stab its brain(which is located in the foot, may be left or right, Stab both!)
This is the only reason to kill a leprechaun. You should never steal a Leprechauns gold or booze! Get your own! "

rschleicher
03-08-2013, 06:58 PM
It's a small little owl, but an owl, nonetheless....

I'd like to think that this is how Nigel Tufnel would explain the advantages of a CU24:

Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's an owl, isn't it? It's not the usual bird. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing a guitar with just birds. You're using as many birds as you have, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on the last bird on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Go for the owl.
Nigel Tufnel: The owl. Exactly. One more bird.

jfb
03-08-2013, 07:14 PM
I'm rocking all 22's. I like the look. But I do like owls so maybe a 24 is in my future for variety.

Pfloyd57
03-08-2013, 09:49 PM
Interesting... I guess it's different for different people... what really screws me up is the size of the neck... if it is too thin or too thick I will get lost... or if I have been playing a Strat and then switch to a Gibson the shorter scale will mess me up... but having 2 more frets with a Cu24, or one less with a Strat doesn't seem to matter

I'll tell you about getting lost or screwed up. Try playing a Steinberger GL; no headstock and the body joins the neck at the 23rd fret. Definately a challenge to switch to in the middle of a set immediately after playing a CU24, Stratocaster or Les Paul. It's difficult not to find yourself starting 2 frets higher due to the nut being the end of the neck.

Burstboy
06-05-2013, 04:20 AM
Hi, I own two custom 24 guitars, and find them to be the most comfortable instruments for me. I have in the past had 22 fret prs guitars - the 24 fret guitars seem to have less tension on the strings to me. Anyone else find this?

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 08:33 AM
...read all of the Ed Roman stuff, etc. about how the pickups cannot possibly be placed in the right position on a 22 fret guitar.

OK, I'm late to this party, but I just now read this...

I might understand if this notion by Roman was reversed - that the pickups cannot possibly be placed in the right position on a 24 fret guitar - since there is less space between the end of the fretboard and the bridge. But on a 22 fret guitar you have more room, thus more options in placing the pups.

I don't pretend to know where the best possible positions for pups are, I'm not a luthier. But simple analysis shows that Roman got this wrong. With all that space, Roman could put the pups on a 22 exactly where he would have put them on a 24 with the only consequence being a bit of space between the end of the fretboard and the neck pup. Am I missing something??

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 08:37 AM
An advantage with a CU24 is that you can tune down a whole step and still be able to play every note as you would on a 22 fret guitar tuned to standard.

HUH??

...talk about getting lost.... I do some alternate tunings, but this seems like a strange one.


I've read people say that they get lost on 24 frets. I find the opposite. Given the extra fret marker I find it easier to relate everything I do on the first 12 frets to the next 12.

... which just got completely transposed by tuning the entire guitar down a whole step....

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 08:55 AM
I am clarifying the matter once and for all. The scale of a custom 22 and 24 is the same 25". The neck pickup is in the same spot on both gtrs, but the bridge and bridge pickup is closer to the neck pickup and the neck is longer on a 24fretter. The distance from the nut to the bridge is the same 25" for both gtrs. On a 22 fretter, the neck pickup is farther from the bridge because the bridge is in a different spot. Thus the neck pickup is "picking up" the strings vibrations in a less trebled, warmer spot. When a string is plucked closer to the bridge, the result is a brighter, more trebled sound. when you pluck it further from the bridge, the sound is bassier, warmer, dull and rounder, with less treble. The neck pickup on a 22fret sounds warmer because it is farther from the bridge, underneath a less trebled spot. This is not because the neck pickup moved, the entire bridge is moved farther from it. If you take a ruler and measure the distance between the bridge and neck pickup on a 22 and a 24, you will notice they are closer together on a 24, and farther apart on a 22. The distance between the frets on both gtrs is exactly the same, exept for the last two on a 24 which make the fretboard longer, not sqeezed together. 22 fret= shorter neck with bridge farther from the neck pickup. 24 fret= longer neck with the bridge closer to the neck pickup. The bridge pickup is the same distance from the bridge on both gtrs. The neck pickup is not, and sounds fatter on a 22fret gtr. Apart from this tonal differnce of the neck pickup, the difference in bridge placement and neck length is why the two feel completely different as far as playability goes. In my opinion, neither is better as to playability, its just what you are comfortable with. Other than this comfort issue, the advantage of the 22 is the sweeter sounding neck pickup, and for the 24 it is the two extra notes. ( and the owl )......Now to briefly addess the Roman arguement: It only makes sense for the open string. Once a string is fretted, the harmonic moves to a different location. Thus, the neck pickup placement error arguement due to harmonic overtones is a dead one. If every note had its own string and its own pickup, then maybe I could be convinced, but we are talking gtrs, not pianos. Thats just my opinion, and Ed had his too. May he, and this topic rest in peace......and for what its worth, I think the 24fret 25" scale length is worthy of a nobel prize, I love it!.......I think I need an aspirin, thankyou.

Well, not quite I think.

The fretboard on a 24 is longer to accommodate the 2 extra frets. (yes, the length from the nut to the 22nd fret is the same since the scale is the same). Since the neck pickup is placed at the end of the fretboard, it is positioned further from the bridge on a 22 fretter, not because the bridge is in different position, but because the fretboard is shorter.

Measure from the nut to the neck pickup. The distance is less on a 22. Yes, there is more distance between the bridge and the neck pup. Consider if luthiers wanted the neck pup closer to the bridge on a 22, what would stop them from moving it closer if they wanted to? It seems the key to the neck pup position is the length of the fretboard, not the position of the bridge on the body because they want it as far from the bridge as they can get it.

Aside from neck joint strength issues, it doesn't matter where the pups are in relation to the guitar body, only in relation to their placement under the strings...

I see your aspirin and raise you 2 Advil... :shakehands:

CHARISMAFIRE
06-05-2013, 09:37 AM
Yes the fretboard is longer by two frets, but the bridges are in different spots also. Thats what gives the neck pickup on a 22 a less treble sound, because its further from the bridge. Somewhere in this thread there is an illustration where this difference can be seen visually.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 10:26 AM
Yes the fretboard is longer by two frets, but the bridges are in different spots also. Thats what gives the neck pickup on a 22 a less treble sound, because its further from the bridge. Somewhere in this thread there is an illustration where this difference can be seen visually.

I agree with the effect repositioning the neck pup has on the sound, but I disagree that it is because of the placement of the bridge on the body.

Consider that for any given scale length, the distance between the nut and the bridge is constant. That is the very definition of scale length, is it not?

Now consider a guitar with a fretboard length of only 10 frets for illustration purposes. If you put the bridge in any reasonable position on the body with respect to the heel of the guitar, the body would need to be elongated on the neck end to make up the distance not covered by the missing 12 frets of length compared to a 22 fret neck. You could place a pickup anywhere from the end of the fretboard to the bridge and really get whatever tonal qualities you wanted. Think about how it would sound if the pickup was position under where the 12th fret would have been. The tone couldn't get any fuller, rounder, less treblely...

But what illustrates my point is that you could still position a pup on that very strange guitar where the end of a 22 fret fretboard would end and it would sound substantially the same as any other 22 fretter for open strings and those first 10 frets. If you put the pup where the end of a 24 fret fretboard would end, it would sound like a 24 fretter.

Yes the tone is dependent on the pup positioning, whether you think of it as distance from the nut or distance from the bridge is not important. It is not important from which end you measure.

The important thing is available space to position the pup and because a 24 fret fretboard is longer than a 22 fret fretboard, there is less space between the end of the fretboard and the bridge and thus fewer options.

You can move the bridge all around on the body, but to keep the same scale length, you have to move the fretboard and nut exactly the same distances to conserve the scale. That shows that moving the bridge is immaterial. It is the length of the fretboard impinging on the space next to the bridge which limits how far out you can put a neck pickup.

garrett
06-05-2013, 10:41 AM
HUH??

...talk about getting lost.... I do some alternate tunings, but this seems like a strange one.


Imagine if you put a capo on the 2nd fret. You'd be at standard pitch and still have 22 frets to work with. Or, with no capo you could get the low note of "Moby Dick" and still have the highest D note without having to retune.

garrett
06-05-2013, 10:50 AM
I did enjoy having those extra two frets sometimes. The CU24 was my first PRS and I loved it. But then I added a pair of 22 fret PRS and other brand guitars with 21 or 22 frets and started playing them more and more. The CU24 started to feel "wrong" and I found myself accidentally positioning my fingers a step higher than intended and the neck seemed so loooong.

Stretching out the neck to include those two extra frets has a significant impact on feel for me. The bridge, bridge pickup and controls are moved further into the body. It shifts everything an inch or so to the left from a playing perspective.

CHARISMAFIRE
06-05-2013, 11:18 AM
Take a ruler to your local guitar center if you dont believe me. The neck pickup is closer to the bridge on a 24 because bridge is in a different spot. The scale is still 25" because the neck is 2 frets longer. Look back in this thread to a post by EricT. There you will see the light.

sergiodeblanc
06-05-2013, 12:01 PM
Stretching out the neck to include those two extra frets has a significant impact on feel for me. The bridge, bridge pickup and controls are moved further into the body. It shifts everything an inch or so to the left from a playing perspective.

This is one of the reasons I love the 24's, the 22's seem so tiny and cramped in comparison.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 12:15 PM
FINALLY the definitive explaination! Thank the Lord.

Well - no. See below.


Take a ruler to your local guitar center if you dont believe me. The neck pickup is closer to the bridge on a 24 because bridge is in a different spot. The scale is still 25" because the neck is 2 frets longer. Look back in this thread to a post by EricT. There you will see the light.

Sorry - I disagree.

See the illustration below. All three guitars have the exact same scale length as shown by the bridges and 12th frets and nuts aligning exactly.

All three have their neck pups at the end of their fretboards as PRS and almost everyone else does it. for comparison sakes, the bodies are all the same size. The fretboards are identical with the ONLY difference being that the 24 has 2 more frets.

The left is a 22 fretter. The neck joins the body at the upper bout at about the 20th fret.
The center is a 24 fretter, The neck joins the body at the upper bout at about the 22nd fret.
The right is a 24 fretter with the neck joining the body at about the 14th fret.

Yes, it is true that the bridge on the 24 falls closer to the neck end of the body. But that is not what is limiting the space available for the pups!

Have a look at the guitar on the right. Its bridge, pups, fretboard and scale is identical to the center guitar. You can see that I positioned the bridge really far down on the body away from the neck, but you can also see that the fretboard had to move the same amount into the body to conserve the scale length. I could just as easily done it the other way and put the bridge where the neck pickup is, but then I would have had to move the fretboard and nut the same distance. End result - the distance available between the bridge and the end of the fretboard remains the same. Move the bridge wherever you want, the length of the fretboard from nut to 24th fret will always be the same and always be what is limiting the space available for pups.

You could even have the neck joint for center guitar at the 20th fret (like the 22 fretter) and you would still only have the same diminished space between the fingerboard and the bridge for the pups. And in that case, the bridge would be in the same position on the 24 as it is on the 22 in relation to the body.

Position of bridge on body for a given scale's effect on pup placement - immaterial.
Length of fretboard for a given scale's effect on pup placement - the limiting factor.

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22V24.jpg

garrett
06-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Well - no. See below.



Sorry - I disagree.

See the illustration below. All three guitars have the exact same scale length as shown by the bridges and 12th frets and nuts aligning exactly.

All three have their neck pups at the end of their fretboards as PRS and almost everyone else does it. for comparison sakes, the bodies are all the same size. The fretboards are identical with the ONLY difference being that the 24 has 2 more frets.

The left is a 22 fretter. The neck joins the body at the upper bout at about the 20th fret.
The center is a 24 fretter, The neck joins the body at the upper bout at about the 22nd fret.
The right is a 24 fretter with the neck joining the body at about the 14th fret.

Yes, it is true that the bridge on the 24 falls closer to the neck end of the body. But that is not what is limiting the space available for the pups!

Have a look at the guitar on the right. Its bridge, pups, fretboard and scale is identical to the center guitar. You can see that I positioned the bridge really far down on the body away from the neck, but you can also see that the fretboard had to move the same amount into the body to conserve the scale length. I could just as easily done it the other way and put the bridge where the neck pickup is, but then I would have had to move the fretboard and nut the same distance. End result - the distance available between the bridge and the end of the fretboard remains the same. Move the bridge wherever you want, the length of the fretboard from nut to 24th fret will always be the same and always be what is limiting the space available for pups.

You could even have the neck joint for center guitar at the 20th fret (like the 22 fretter) and you would still only have the same diminished space between the fingerboard and the bridge for the pups. And in that case, the bridge would be in the same position on the 24 as it is on the 22 in relation to the body.

Position of bridge for a given scale on body's effect on pup placement - none
Length of fretboard for a given scale's effect on pup placement - the limiting factor.

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22V24.jpg

Man, that's a fancy diagram! The way I think of it is like this: Imagine you can stretch the neck of the guitar to include two new frets, but the scale must stay the same, and the neck pickup cannot move. Therefore, you pull the neck to make it longer and include the extra frets, which drags the bridge, bridge pickup and controls closer to the neck pickup.

So basically guitars 1 and 2 above, but I picture them with the butt ends sitting on a level surface. I had fun doing that sort of side by side back when I had the CU24 and my current 22 fretters.

Rodicus
06-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Hey Ruger

Tuning down a whole step does not seem strange to me or probably to many other people. Quite common tunings if you listen to metal.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 12:32 PM
It occurs to me that I can show that the position of the bridge on the body is not the limiting factor quite easily,

remove the body from the equation since it is only a distraction.

The image speaks for itself.

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22V24nobody.jpg

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 12:37 PM
Hey Ruger

Tuning down a whole step does not seem strange to me or probably to many other people. Quite common tunings if you listen to metal.

Sorry - I was joshing you.....

sergiodeblanc
06-05-2013, 12:54 PM
The image speaks for itself.

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22V24nobody.jpg

I don't understand all this gimmetry. :tongue:

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
06-05-2013, 12:55 PM
I don't understand all this gimmetry. :tongue:

:D

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 01:10 PM
I don't understand all this gimmetry. :tongue:


-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;78943']:D

The hard part was hiding the smoke and mirrors......

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
06-05-2013, 01:12 PM
The hard part was hiding the smoke and mirrors......

Well played, Sir.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 01:13 PM
Man, that's a fancy diagram! The way I think of it is like this: Imagine you can stretch the neck of the guitar to include two new frets, but the scale must stay the same, and the neck pickup cannot move. Therefore, you pull the neck to make it longer and include the extra frets, which drags the bridge, bridge pickup and controls closer to the neck pickup.

So basically guitars 1 and 2 above, but I picture them with the butt ends sitting on a level surface. I had fun doing that sort of side by side back when I had the CU24 and my current 22 fretters.

That's a good way to look at it because it is those extra 2 frets compressing the space available for the pups, not the bridge position on the body.

Egads
06-05-2013, 01:28 PM
I used to have a CE24 and a CE22. Sonically, I much preferred the CE24, and I contribute most of that to the location of the neck pickup in relation to the harmonic nodes of the string.

Also, it's two more higher--it goes to 24. :D

CHARISMAFIRE
06-05-2013, 01:33 PM
In those diagrams you moved the neck pickup. In reality, the neck pickups on PRS gtrs dont move, the bridge and the bridge pickups do. Compare a Custom 22 to a 24, and measure the distance between the pickups. Its SHORTER on the 24.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 02:03 PM
In those diagrams you moved the neck pickup. In reality, the neck pickups on PRS gtrs dont move, the bridge and the bridge pickups do. Compare a Custom 22 to a 24, and measure the distance between the pickups. Its SHORTER on the 24.

O.M.G.

Please just look at the diagram without the body outlines... You can see from the drawings (even in the drawing with guitar bodies) that the space between the pups is smaller and that the neck pup is closer to the bridge on the 24! Not in dispute!

What IS in dispute is WHY.

The illustration without the bodies clearly shows the body has NOTHING to do with it.

Neck pups are positioned at the end of the fretboard. A longer fretboard (by 2 frets) means less space available. Put the body anywhere under the bridge and the neck pup on a 24 fretter and it will not change the space available for the neck pup.

Disprove any of the following statements.
A 22 fret and a 24 fret guitar of the same scale have the same distance from the nut to the bridge.

A 22 fret and a 24 fret guitar of the same scale have the same distance from the nut to the 12th fret.

A 22 fret and a 24 fret guitar of the same scale have the same distance from the nut 22nd fret.

A 22 fret and a 24 fret guitar of the same scale have the same distance from the bridge to the 12th fret.

A 22 fret and a 24 fret guitar of the same scale have the same distance from the bridge to the 22nd fret.

The placement of the bridge on the body and the attachment of the neck to the body alter none of the above measurements.

The length of the fretboards for guitars of the same scale is different for a 22 fret guitar vs a 24 fret guitar with the 24 fretter being physically longer.

Since all other dimensions are the same except the physical length of the fretboards, THAT must be what limits how far a pup can be placed from the bridge without putting it under the fretboard.

I refer you back to the illustration without the guitar bodies....

CHARISMAFIRE
06-05-2013, 02:12 PM
Im only posted to help bring clarity, not dispute. The neck on the 24 is longer, youre setting the neck deeper, and thats where the error is.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 02:17 PM
PLEASE look at the illustration without the bodies.

JMintzer
06-05-2013, 02:18 PM
In those diagrams you moved the neck pickup. In reality, the neck pickups on PRS gtrs dont move, the bridge and the bridge pickups do. Compare a Custom 22 to a 24, and measure the distance between the pickups. Its SHORTER on the 24.


Im only posted to help bring clarity, not dispute. The neck on the 24 is longer, youre setting the neck deeper, and thats where the error is.

Um, no...

Rugerpc is spot on correct...


Jamie

Southern_Cross
06-05-2013, 04:24 PM
If i may...

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6047/prscustom22vs24md3.gifI

Southern_Cross
06-05-2013, 04:25 PM
If i may

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6047/prscustom22vs24md3.gif

Slartibartfarst42
06-05-2013, 05:29 PM
I agree, he is. If the scale is the same (which it is), the distance from the nut to the bridge must therefore be the same so it is obvious that the bridge must proportionally be in the exact same position because if they did move the bridge, they would effectively be changing the scale length. Once you establish that the bridge is in the same position, that means that the neck pickup must move closer to the bridge to accommodate the two extra frets.

On a side note, I prefer 24 frets, but that's probably because I've rarely played anything else.

geese_com
06-05-2013, 05:46 PM
Wasn't there a .gif at one point that showed the difference between 22 and 24 frets? Where'd it go?

CoreyT
06-05-2013, 06:07 PM
http://prsguitars.com/forum/showthread.php?1235-22-Frets-vs-24-Frets-What-are-the-advantages

Maybe post 26?
Cannot view Photobucket pics on my Kindle Fire here.

CoreyT
06-05-2013, 06:21 PM
Ooops, I think I posted the same URL as this thread.
So hard surfing on small devices sometimes.
I do remember that animated GIF though.

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 06:36 PM
http://prsguitars.com/forum/showthread.php?1235-22-Frets-vs-24-Frets-What-are-the-advantages

Maybe post 26?
Cannot view Photobucket pics on my Kindle Fire here.


Ooops, I think I posted the same URL as this thread.
So hard surfing on small devices sometimes.
I do remember that animated GIF though.

I have been wanting to see that gif (it doesn't show on the work or the home computer) to see why people think where the bridge is positioned on the the body has anything to do with the position of the neck pup...

JustRob
06-05-2013, 07:11 PM
FWIW, here they are side by side. There's definitely more real estate behind the bridge on the CU24.

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/leeotto9/IMG_20130605_195218_558_zps80fe9825.jpg

CHARISMAFIRE
06-05-2013, 07:12 PM
If you cant view the GIF on post 26 of this thread, if you google " 22 fret vs 24 fret prs ", one of the search results will be a former discussion of the same topic on " the Gear Page ". As you read down a couple of posts in that thread, you will see the GIF. Peace.

CHARISMAFIRE
06-05-2013, 07:21 PM
Every direction you look in my house you see owls.......so it must be all about the owl!!!

rugerpc
06-05-2013, 07:53 PM
FWIW, here they are side by side. There's definitely more real estate behind the bridge on the CU24.

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/leeotto9/IMG_20130605_195208_313_zpsdc2cc3e2.jpg

Nice pic. Unfortunately I doesn't show how moving the entire scale from bridge to nut compress the space available for the neck pup.


If you cant view the GIF on post 26 of this thread, if you google " 22 fret vs 24 fret prs ", one of the search results will be a former discussion of the same topic on " the Gear Page ". As you read down a couple of posts in that thread, you will see the GIF. Peace.

Thanks for that. I was finally able to see the gif. It's a nice animation and shows why the fretboard is repositioned on the body. In both cases, the last 2 frets of the fretboard are over the body as I wrote earlier.

The animation is misleading though. Picture the animation not showing the body, just the nut, fretboards, pups and bridge as in my second drawing. Now, instead of moving the entire scale, simply add frets 23 and 24 to the end of the fretboard with the nut, bridge and pups not moving at all. You can imagine that the 2 added frets would overlay the neck pup, thus the neck pup has to be moved closer to the bridge to accommodate the 2 extra frets of the fretboard. NOT because the bridge, and thus the entire scale, was repositioned on the body...

I can see that I will have to make my own animation. I suppose I'll have to teach myself how to do animated gifs...

CoreyT
06-06-2013, 03:09 AM
I have been wanting to see that gif (it doesn't show on the work or the home computer) to see why people think where the bridge is positioned on the the body has anything to do with the position of the neck pup...
Thanks, now I know I was not going batty, as the Kindle showed a broken picture link since Kindle and PB do not get along anymore, however I could not see it on my PC when I came to this thread.
Anyways, I hit the quote button for post 26, and here is the URL to the pic, but it now says not found.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~ethomas/prs22vs24.gif

Maybe ran out of bandwidth, or it got pulled.

Blackbird
06-06-2013, 09:55 AM
FWIW, here they are side by side. There's definitely more real estate behind the bridge on the CU24.

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/leeotto9/IMG_20130605_195218_558_zps80fe9825.jpg

I agree, looks like more spacing behind the bridge and the bridge pickup is closer to the neck pickup than the CU22.
This topic is perfect for a MythBusters episode.

JustRob
06-06-2013, 10:13 AM
I agree, looks like more spacing behind the bridge and the bridge pickup is closer to the neck pickup than the CU22.
This topic is perfect for a MythBusters episode.

LOL. I'm not letting them blow up my guitars.

(Unless they buy me some new ones. Hmmmm....)

garrett
06-06-2013, 10:41 AM
I agree, looks like more spacing behind the bridge and the bridge pickup is closer to the neck pickup than the CU22.
This topic is perfect for a MythBusters episode.

That's exactly right. The neck of the 24 is also longer than that of the 22. The neck pickup can't be moved any further towards the body edge, so everything else has to shift.

Blackbird
06-06-2013, 10:52 AM
LOL. I'm not letting them blow up my guitars.

(Unless they buy me some new ones. Hmmmm....)

Ha! Yeah watching those blow up would be painful. By the way, where are you mounting the hex pickup controller on that CU24? I have one mounted on a strat and thought the only place you could put it was behind the bridge, attached to the strap button?

JustRob
06-06-2013, 11:23 AM
Ha! Yeah watching those blow up would be painful. By the way, where are you mounting the hex pickup controller on that CU24? I have one mounted on a strat and thought the only place you could put it was behind the bridge, attached to the strap button?

Same. It's hanging around the back so the guitars sit equally on the floor. The part under the strap button made the CU24 about an 8th inch taller. I keep debating getting the Graphtech saddles and Hexpander, but I don't know if I'm ready to committ to new holes in my guitar.

rugerpc
06-06-2013, 11:44 AM
Maybe THIS will help....

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22v24.gif

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
06-06-2013, 11:48 AM
:rofl:

Bill, you're all over it!

jfb
06-06-2013, 12:15 PM
Maybe THIS will help....

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22v24.gif

With an avatar like that I thought you couldn't be more boss...then I see this. KING BOSS!

jcha008
06-06-2013, 01:22 PM
Love that diagram above, really good explanation. On Prs guitars, the neck technically is longer on the 24 fretters, but the 25" scale length stays the same. Never really liked the neck pickups on 24 frets guitars. It seems to lack the warmth at times I prefer from 22 fretters.

JMintzer
06-06-2013, 01:47 PM
Maybe THIS will help....

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22v24.gif

Close, but the 24 fret neck really doesn't intrude into the body, crowding the neck pup. It sits out farther, causing the need to move the bridge and the the bridge pup farther towards the neck pup to maintain the 24" scale...

The gif with the guitar adding two frets nails the explanation, imho...


Jamie

rugerpc
06-06-2013, 02:30 PM
You guys are all hung up on where the bridge sits on the body and at what fret the neck joins the body and none of it has anything to do with the decreased space available for the pups on a 24 vs a 22.

For a 24 you could put the body/neck joint at fret 22 and have 2 frets sitting over the body as is usually done on a double cut. Or, if you wanted the bridge in the same position as it is for a 22, you could have 4 frets sitting on the body with the upper bout neck joint at 20 - you would need to deepen the cut on the lower bout a bit to all easier access to the last frets. Or, you could have the neck join the body way up the fretboard for the upper bout as in the case of a single cut.

My point is - none of that matters - what compresses the space between the end of the fretboard and the bridge is the two extra frets.

It simply does not matter where you lay the whole thing on the body.

Picture it all happening on a singlecut. You can keep both the bridge and the upper bout neck joint in the same position. You add 2 frets to the fretboard, move the neck pup and deepen the carve slightly on the lower bout for access. You would be moving the neck pup to accommodate the 2 extra frets.


Take a ruler to your local guitar center if you dont believe me. The neck pickup is closer to the bridge on a 24 because bridge is in a different spot. The scale is still 25" because the neck is 2 frets longer. Look back in this thread to a post by EricT. There you will see the light.

THIS is what I'm on about.
I acknowledge that the bridge on a 24 is moved - that is because we generally only want 2 frets laying over the body for easier access. Thus the whole scale is moved by 2 frets towards the neck end of the guitar.
I acknowledge that the necks are longer on a 24 - by the above mentioned 2 frets.
I acknowledge that the neck pickup ends up closer to the bridge.
I refute that the neck pup is closer because the bridge is moved on a 24.
I assert it is because there are 2 more frets in the way where the neck pup is positioned in relation to the bridge, while maintaining the scale of the guitar.

Set up your desired scale.
Decide on your bridge and nut.
Decide on the length of your fretboard (22 or 24 or 18 or 5 or 30 - pick anything you want)
Lay out your bridge, nut and fretboard to scale.
The space between the end of the fretboard and the bridge is the space available for pups. If you want more room so you can put a pup farther from the bridge, you are gonna have to get rid of some frets...
You can lay the entire thing anywhere on a guitar body you want.
Moving the entire setup back and forth across the body doesn't change the space available for pups.

Finally, consider a neck-through guitar. Think of one that is JUST that long single piece that goes all the way from the tuners to through the body to the button for the strap at the end. Think of it WITHOUT any wood added to the top or bottom (body wings). It's just a long slab of wood. There are travel guitars like this, actually.

Now, lay out your 22 fret guitar on it. All the parts sit on that one piece of wood from tip of headstock to nut to fretboard to pups to bridge to tail to strap button.

Make a small change. Add 2 frets to the fretboard without changing the scale length. Are you gonna add wood to the end of the headstock and move the tuners, the nut, the fretboard the bridge pup and the bridge just so you don't have to move the neck pup? Are you nuts?

Take out the neck pup, put down your new fretboard with it's 2 extra frets and rout a new neck pup cavity at the end of THAT fretboard, ummm, maybe like ..

THIS

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22v24.gif

CHARISMAFIRE
06-06-2013, 04:18 PM
Regarding PRS GUITARS, that drawing is incorrect. I have both guitars before me......the neck pickup doesnt move, everything else does. I hope I have helped.

sergiodeblanc
06-06-2013, 04:28 PM
squirt?

rugerpc
06-06-2013, 04:42 PM
squirt!

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
06-06-2013, 04:42 PM
squirt?


squirt!

Premature. :vroam:

rugerpc
06-06-2013, 04:44 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;79208']Premature. :vroam:

not premature - I'm done :goodnight:

sergiodeblanc
06-06-2013, 05:04 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;79208']Premature. :vroam:


not premature - I'm done :goodnight:

Squirt is not the same as pie.
Squirt- 1. The polar opposite of "pie". When you wish to state something but have no idea where to start, you say: Squirt.
2. Sparkling citrus beverage that pairs well with rum.

rugerpc
06-06-2013, 05:34 PM
Squirt is not the same as pie.
Squirt- 1. The polar opposite of "pie". When you wish to state something but have no idea where to start, you say: Squirt.
2. Sparkling citrus beverage that pairs well with rum.

Oh, I get squirt. For me right now it's either 'squirt' or I'm gonna have to do my Strother Martin impersonation...

Blackbird
06-06-2013, 06:27 PM
You guys are all hung up on where the bridge sits on the body and at what fret the neck joins the body and none of it has anything to do with the decreased space available for the pups on a 24 vs a 22.

For a 24 you could put the body/neck joint at fret 22 and have 2 frets sitting over the body as is usually done on a double cut. Or, if you wanted the bridge in the same position as it is for a 22, you could have 4 frets sitting on the body with the upper bout neck joint at 20 - you would need to deepen the cut on the lower bout a bit to all easier access to the last frets. Or, you could have the neck join the body way up the fretboard for the upper bout as in the case of a single cut.

My point is - none of that matters - what compresses the space between the end of the fretboard and the bridge is the two extra frets.

It simply does not matter where you lay the whole thing on the body.

Picture it all happening on a singlecut. You can keep both the bridge and the upper bout neck joint in the same position. You add 2 frets to the fretboard, move the neck pup and deepen the carve slightly on the lower bout for access. You would be moving the neck pup to accommodate the 2 extra frets.



THIS is what I'm on about.
I acknowledge that the bridge on a 24 is moved - that is because we generally only want 2 frets laying over the body for easier access. Thus the whole scale is moved by 2 frets towards the neck end of the guitar.
I acknowledge that the necks are longer on a 24 - by the above mentioned 2 frets.
I acknowledge that the neck pickup ends up closer to the bridge.
I refute that the neck pup is closer because the bridge is moved on a 24.
I assert it is because there are 2 more frets in the way where the neck pup is positioned in relation to the bridge, while maintaining the scale of the guitar.

Set up your desired scale.
Decide on your bridge and nut.
Decide on the length of your fretboard (22 or 24 or 18 or 5 or 30 - pick anything you want)
Lay out your bridge, nut and fretboard to scale.
The space between the end of the fretboard and the bridge is the space available for pups. If you want more room so you can put a pup farther from the bridge, you are gonna have to get rid of some frets...
You can lay the entire thing anywhere on a guitar body you want.
Moving the entire setup back and forth across the body doesn't change the space available for pups.

Finally, consider a neck-through guitar. Think of one that is JUST that long single piece that goes all the way from the tuners to through the body to the button for the strap at the end. Think of it WITHOUT any wood added to the top or bottom (body wings). It's just a long slab of wood. There are travel guitars like this, actually.

Now, lay out your 22 fret guitar on it. All the parts sit on that one piece of wood from tip of headstock to nut to fretboard to pups to bridge to tail to strap button.

Make a small change. Add 2 frets to the fretboard without changing the scale length. Are you gonna add wood to the end of the headstock and move the tuners, the nut, the fretboard the bridge pup and the bridge just so you don't have to move the neck pup? Are you nuts?

Take out the neck pup, put down your new fretboard with it's 2 extra frets and rout a new neck pup cavity at the end of THAT fretboard, ummm, maybe like ..

THIS

http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22v24.gif

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab156/ahogfan80/typer_zps71ace180.gif (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/ahogfan80/media/typer_zps71ace180.gif.html)

rugerpc
06-06-2013, 06:35 PM
squirt

JMintzer
06-06-2013, 06:42 PM
Ruger,

The problem is some of us are talking about how PRS has different necks on the 22 vs 24 fret guitars, causing the need to move the bridge towards the headstock, and you're talking in general terms. Both are correct...


Jamie

Shawn@PRS
06-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Regarding PRS GUITARS, that drawing is incorrect. I have both guitars before me......the neck pickup doesnt move, everything else does. I hope I have helped.

Actually, both you and Ruger are correct. His drawing above is correct, but it does not show the guitar body, it only shows the scale length. On a PRS Custom approximately 2 1/2 frets are located ON the body. This is true for both 22 and 24 fret models. Because of the extra frets on a 24 fretter, the bridge moves up and the neck is kicked out further. This causes less space between pickups.

JustRob
06-06-2013, 06:50 PM
Yay Shawn!

But did anyone answer the "what are the advantages" part? :vroam:

Dirty Bob
06-06-2013, 07:51 PM
You have access to two more frets!!!!

holy heck....this was silly.


on a side note body position shifts slightly left when playing a cu24...:hello:

enigma
06-06-2013, 09:17 PM
BTW, all the warmer neck pickup tone talk on the 22 fretters over 24 fretters may be seriously considered if there were no tone knobs or EQ control knobs on our amps :).

tabl10s
06-07-2013, 10:37 AM
24 fret necks with birds get an owl. 22 fretters don't. :p


Never noticed that.

rugerpc
06-10-2013, 11:40 AM
http://toragraphics.com/img/draw/22v24body.gif

Neeeyo
08-14-2013, 08:52 AM
Here's an animated gif that I think does a great job illustrating the difference between PRS 24 and 22 fret models. The neck pickup stays put-as Shawn stated, the bridge is shifted forward.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6047/prscustom22vs24md3.gif

Blackbird
08-14-2013, 09:14 AM
Same image from page 4.
This mystery has been solved, nothing to see here.

maxtuna26
08-14-2013, 10:35 AM
assuming that the scale length is unchanged, 25 inch for that matter...

24 frets will mean greater access to the 22nd fret as the 22nd fret was "pushed" upwards. This will definitely help players wanting to play high up the neck without frequently hitting the cutaway.
22 frets will give more fretting area as the frets are spread over a wider area. This will definitely help for players with stubby fingers wanting to play higher up the neck.

Personally, I don't find much difference in playing both. I can switch from my SE Cu24 to my brother's Tele with 21 frets without any problem. My fingers are kinda stubby, plus I use 11s, so the higher notes are harder to play. The only thing I like about the 24 fret is the neck pickup's position. It's closer to the bridge than on a 22 fret guitar, which makes the neck pickup sound brighter, which is what I like.

Neeeyo
08-14-2013, 10:53 AM
Same image from page 4.
This mystery has been solved, nothing to see here.

Heh, you're right, guess I should've read through the whole thread. :)

I like how the 22 fret PRS models get that classic rock growl when playing a distorted first position A chord on the bridge pickup, something that I don't hear on the Custom 24.

Tag
08-14-2013, 05:07 PM
I always thought the difference was where you placed the neck pup. On a 22 it normally halfway between the 12th fret and the bridge and so supposedly sweeter.




Yes. I always thought(and still do) that its the neck pup that changes position in relation to the strings on a 24 fret, not the bridge. (The bridge and tail piece both get moved towards the neck to keep the scale length the same, thus their relationship stays the same too. The neck pup stays put which changes its position along the string length. Its now closer to the bridge giving a "brighter" sound. ) The old Dearmond floating pups had a bar letting you slide the pickup from right against the neck, about 2" closer to the bridge. You could hear the tone changing every little bit you moved it. The biggest and deepest sound was always flush against the neck. The great early Guild Artist and Johnny Smith awards came with that pick up, and it had a tab holding it away from the neck stock. We always ground that off and cut the pick guard a bit so we could slide it flush against the neck. ;)

Tag
08-14-2013, 05:11 PM
Here's an animated gif that I think does a great job illustrating the difference between PRS 24 and 22 fret models. The neck pickup stays put-as Shawn stated, the bridge is shifted forward.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6047/prscustom22vs24md3.gif


Thanks for posting that while I was away taking 25 minutes to write out an explaination of exactly what that shows perfectly. :mad:

Tag
08-14-2013, 05:15 PM
BTW, all the warmer neck pickup tone talk on the 22 fretters over 24 fretters may be seriously considered if there were no tone knobs or EQ control knobs on our amps :).

Its totally different. The pick up is on a different part of the string. that makes it pick up different overtones, or strengths of over tones. Think about it. Can you make your bridge pup sound like the neck pup by adjusting your tone knobs or EQ knobs? Not even close. Its the same thing, just to a lesser degree. Those old sliding DeArmonds really showed me how much difference a small move can make. Its why I always preferred Gibson L4s to 175s. Yes the L4 has a solid top, but a bigger tonal difference is the neck pup location. Flush agaisnt the neck on the L4, giving it a deeper, bigger tone.

ADP
08-15-2013, 04:46 AM
Years ago, before PRS posted a list of what the birds are, I couldn't figure out how the inlay at the 24th fret was a bird. I thought it looked like a turtle, not a turtle dove, an actual turtle. It was only later that I realised its "front flippers" are the branch it's sitting on.

I was going to point out that it's not fair that the Custom 24 gets not only an extra inlay but also two more frets and more neck and fingerboard wood but maybe this thread's had enough controversy.;)

dilznik
08-16-2013, 02:14 PM
22 fretters are for guys that only like to stick it in 11/12ths of the way.

Also if you're playing Leave That Thing Alone you need that 24th fret.

alphasports
12-13-2013, 01:04 PM
Gotta have the owl!

_pete_
12-13-2013, 04:58 PM
Also if you're playing Leave That Thing Alone you need that 24th fret.

Finally!! The correct answer!!

John Mann
12-14-2013, 09:43 AM
The real difference (beyond the obvious difference of 2 frets) is pickup placement of the neck pickup. This results is a different tonality.

Michael_DK
12-14-2013, 11:22 AM
The real difference (beyond the obvious difference of 2 frets) is pickup placement of the neck pickup. This results is a different tonality.


I can see this post sparking yet another 6 pages of "debate" :-)

andy474x
12-14-2013, 11:47 AM
Overall, I'm more preferential to the tone of a 22 fretter, but the thing that I like about the 24 fret neck has nothing to do with the number of frets, but what PRS has chosen to do on the neck heels. The heel on 24 fret guitars seems to be shorter, and when combined with the extra frets on a 24, it starts around the 19th fret, vs a 22 that starts around 15. I very rarely play the extra frets on a 24 fret neck, but the combination of the shorter heel and the neck protruding out of the body a little further makes it much easier for my smallish hands to reach way up to those upper frets.