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View Full Version : Not another "conspricacy theory" from Bennett again???



docbennett
10-01-2012, 03:14 PM
Well...let's start by disavowing any desire to stir any pots. And, furthermore, if this "CSI PRS" results in my guitar being "out-ed" in any way....so be it. I am genuinely curious. And I really don't care if mine turns out to be a "fake" in one sense of the word. And, in retrospect...I don't like the title of my thread...but I can't change it now. There's no conspiracy going on...just a state of confusion!

Here are the facts....the following guitar has been offered for auction on Ebay for months now....mods.....if I am skating on thin ice with regard to rules concerning "selling" please delete the link...however, since I cannot copy images from the auction, suffice to say that it is an '01 Singlecut signed on the back plate and numbered 68/250 from the limited run of Brazilian necked siglecuts from that era. The hangtag is dated 7/31/01 and otherwise is IDENTICAL to my hang tag with the exception that mine is dated later and has a later serial number. BTW.... I have ABSOLUTELY no connection to the seller in any way.

Here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261102379961?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&autorefresh=true

Well...here is the crux of the biscuit, as they say.

I own the following guitar:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/prs%202001%20brw%20singlecut%2069%20of%20250/100_3832.jpg

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/prs%202001%20brw%20singlecut%2069%20of%20250/100_4942.jpg

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/prs%202001%20brw%20singlecut%2069%20of%20250/100_4941.jpg
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/prs%202001%20brw%20singlecut%2069%20of%20250/100_3929.jpg


So...which one is the REAL #68/250???? Or, were there two, and Paul didn't want to release a "soixante neuf" production number? http://prsguitars.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

I would really like to find out how both guitars wound up with the same number, ostensibly from the same production run. I can only go by what the previous owner told me....it was a local dealer who represented it as one of the BRW numbered guitars from that run.

Comments? Thoughts?? I really don't care if mine is not "real"....the guitar plays great and I enjoy it. I just want to know if there is a question as to the veracity of the provenance, since I wouldn't want to sell it in the future and unintentionally misrepresent it. Oh...and it's NOT for sale. http://prsguitars.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Thanks for your help.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-01-2012, 03:35 PM
Of the BRW neck guitars I've owned or fondled, the number in the pup cavity has never matched the number that was hand-written in gold ink on the outside of the cavity plate. If the plate is lost, the guitar's provenance is still inside the pickup cavity but there is no evidence of the number written on the plate. I haven't seen any of the original cavity plates with a hash sign (#) in front of the assigned number but every time I think I've got "the way things were" figured out, someone presents an anomaly. Finally, I haven't seen any of the original control cavity covers for the BRW Singlecuts with Paul's signature next to the number (unless it was added later).

Have you contacted the seller to find out if they have any more info on their guitar?

cjmwrx
10-01-2012, 03:59 PM
I hate ads/websites that use a black background and white text. Makes me fell like I am going to have a seizure.

Artist
10-01-2012, 04:09 PM
Wow that is very strange.
The auction did say and has a picture of when it was signed by Paul at a store event. So it should have happened afterwards.

If any of those two is a fake then we are all doomed, because those look as real as you can get by pictures.

Have you tried putting the barcode number/letters in the site that gives you the details and see if it matches your guitar? I can't find the link but it was posted here.

I guess the only other thing you can do is check the pickup cavity as mentioned before.

JMintzer
10-01-2012, 04:12 PM
The #68/250 is written differently than any of the one's I've owned. And as has been said, I've never seen one come signed like that.

The neck -does- look to be brazilian, though...

Strange bird, indeed...


Jamie

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-01-2012, 04:34 PM
If any of those two is a fake then we are all doomed, because those look as real as you can get by pictures.
I don't think either guitar is a fake.

docbennett
10-01-2012, 06:16 PM
My favorite theory is the "we won't do a 69, so we'll do 2 68's" theory :-). Now that I've read the preceding, I plan to open 'er up this weekend and take a glance inside the pickup cavity...and I will post the pictures also.

AP515
10-01-2012, 06:54 PM
We know this much: the cover plate on the other one is NOT original. The writting is not right. IMO the guitars are both ligit. Both have similar options, BRW necks, mixed hardware, same birds. It could be as simple as the original buyer kept the numbered plate and somebody later wrote a number on a replacement plate and got your number by chance.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-01-2012, 07:07 PM
Gag Halfrunt (Bill) used to own this one. Just sent me some info. Hopefully he'll chime in.

The plate in the eBay listing is not original. This is the plate it had when Bill bought it from Brent in 2010.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/BRW_SC_68250.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/BRW_SC_68_Cavity.jpg

LSchefman
10-01-2012, 10:07 PM
What's Up Doc (apropos, only this one's from the Bogdonavich movie)?

Howard: It gets kind of complicated now. First, there was this trouble between me and Hugh.
Judge Maxwell: You and me?
Howard: No, not you. Hugh.
Hugh: I am Hugh.
Judge Maxwell: You are me?
Hugh: No, I am Hugh.
Judge Maxwell: Stop saying that!
[to bailiff]
Judge Maxwell: Make him stop saying that!
Hugh: Don't touch me, I'm a doctor.
Judge Maxwell: Of what?
Hugh: Music.
Judge Maxwell: Can you fix a hi-fi?
Hugh: No, sir.
Judge Maxwell: Then shut up!

Note: I'm not telling Bennett to shut up via this post. It's a quote from a movie about a mixup. That's simply how the dialog ends.

clmazza
10-03-2012, 06:51 AM
Strange, indeed. I've had something similar happen to me with another guitar manufacturer. The guitar in question was sent to the manufacturer to confirm its authenticity. It was validated that there were two guitars made with the same serial number issued. "Mistakes happen" was the excuse I was given.

With that said... I believe both are legit. On an aside... SWEET guitar! :)

docbennett
10-03-2012, 07:09 AM
I've been contemplating buying the other one, just so I can say that "one of these is definitely from the run of 250" :biggrin:

Seriously, this is a seriously nice sounding SC, and for the life of me I don't understand the dislike of the #7 pickups...they sound great...to my ears (well, that may explain it).

I plan to pull the pickups this weekend, just out of curiosity to see what is inside the cavity. For example...I have a 10th anniversary model thats COA indicates that final assembly was completed by PRSh himself (that's redundant). So...a fellow forum member recommended awhile back that I open it up....the theory being that if PRSh did the final assembly and signed off on the COA in that spot as well as his usual place...then maybe the guitar was specially targeted to someone....special.

So I opened it up. And found...the usual serial number and nutin' else. Who'd have thunk it? :p

gag halfrunt
10-03-2012, 02:11 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;24333']Gag Halfrunt (Bill) used to own this one. Just sent me some info. Hopefully he'll chime in.

The plate in the eBay listing is not original. This is the plate it had when Bill bought it from Brent in 2010.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/BRW_SC_68250.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/BRW_SC_68_Cavity.jpg

Hello all,

After a pleasant email exchange with Hans, he suggested I post a little of this guitar's history. Here is what I know:

Hans, to answer your question, I owned the guitar in the ebay listing, and it is indeed 68/250. I bought it from Brent at The Guitar Shop in July of 2010. I sold it last year to a guy in Florida named Jamie Comar who was a new member of BaM. I remember he was a brand new Bammer because I insisted on payment from him via wire transfer. I think he might be the guy selling it now, because not long after I sold him this mint SC BRW Ltd for $4k, he tried to sell me a beat up Teal SC from this line (18/250 he said) for $5k. It seemed like something a retailer (but non-PRS Dealer) would try to do (as a collector would know values better than that). I politely told him he was not in the right ball park.

I can tell you for certain that the control cavity cover with Paul's signature in the ebay listing is not the stock one. I've included a picture of the cover that Brent sent me when I was considering buying it from him. You can tell the numbers are written differently on the original cover vs the one in the ebay listing. IIRC this guy has been trying to sell the guitar on ebay at this price for almost a year. Also included are pictures of the pickup cavities.

To add some intrigue, I also owned 168/250 in this series (Ruby Red), and the '1' on the 168 was virtually completely gone from the cover, so much so that when I bought it from Guitar Center last year, they advertised it as 68/250. But if you looked REALLY closely, you could see that there had originally been a '1' there. When I bought the guitar, the manila tag on the case handle (the ones GC puts on cases sometimes) had the correct 168/250 written on it.

The guitar in the ebay listing is a great one. If I hadn't completely sworn off RW necks, I would still own it.

I hope this helps,

Bill

Artist
10-03-2012, 10:14 PM
This is all very fascinating. I think it is amazing from the point where two guitars get the same number, to Bennett finding the listing with his number, to another member tracing the original owner and then Bill giving the full story. It is a small world after all

Item has been relisted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261107883681

But to make things worst, I just noticed the following in one of the auction pictures: Along with the case candy there is what appears to be the original cavity cover.
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/1523/sccover.png

At first glimpse you may say that it is the one from the photo that Bill provided but it is Not! Just by seeing the 250 it is clear.
http://imageshack.us/a/img194/6301/platecomparison.png

So there are now 4 different 68/250 plates on two guitars. There is something very funky going on with these covers. To me, numbers like these that identify a set of limited run guitars should be somewhere on the guitar itself along with the other numbering or at least the hang tags.

iahawk36
10-03-2012, 10:39 PM
Wouldn't a simple e-mail to custserv@prsguitars.com be the easiest solution to this?

docbennett
10-04-2012, 07:05 AM
Wouldn't a simple e-mail to custserv@prsguitars.com be the easiest solution to this?

I welcome them to chime in.....I could have done that initially, but these types of stories, I thought, have interest to all members...and since there are members of customer service on the forum....who can actually see the hang tags and related bar codes...I would be very interested in their thoughts. However, there is no guarantee that they would have the correct answer and speculation can be fun, as long as it isn't malicious...IMO.

PS...customer service is going to be too embarrassed to admit that they deliberately did two #68's to avoid having a #69. :laugh:

docbennett
10-04-2012, 07:10 AM
So there are now 4 different 68/250 plates on two guitars. There is something very funky going on with these covers. To me, numbers like these that identify a set of limited run guitars should be somewhere on the guitar itself along with the other numbering or at least the hang tags.

If they had done that, they could not have released 2,350 of the "300 Artist V's" :proud:


OK....just kidding. But there sure seemed to be more than 300 out there.:o

LSchefman
10-04-2012, 12:33 PM
If they had done that, they could not have released 2,350 of the "300 Artist V's" :proud:


OK....just kidding. But there sure seemed to be more than 300 out there.:o

I'm going to get out a gold pen and mark "301 of 300" on mine. It'll give Bennett something to worry about when someone puts it on ebay after I'm dead.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-04-2012, 02:46 PM
I'm going to get out a gold pen and mark "301 of 300" on mine.
I had one of those once. I sold it to the guy with the other one.

IMO, the pair (together) is worth more. Looking back, I should have kept Sig LE #300/300 (the 1st one made) and tried to buy the other.

markie
10-04-2012, 03:11 PM
Yah-mon................................ Pair of Sigs:biggrin:







http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture008.jpg
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture004.jpg

docbennett
10-04-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm going to get out a gold pen and mark "301 of 300" on mine. It'll give Bennett something to worry about when someone puts it on ebay after I'm dead.

Are you implying that I actually worry about these things I post Les??

I'm sure you're being facetious, as I am sure you are well aware that I couldn't care less about the provenance...as stated in the OP.
But, to be honest, there are times when I post questions on this forum and cringe as I await your sarcastic reply. I know you mean well Les...but maybe...just maybe....you can actually let me post questions now and then without the need to diminish my attempt to use the forum as a Q & A?

LSchefman
10-04-2012, 03:46 PM
Geez, Bennett!

Yeah, I was being completely serious, which is why I let you in on a joke I'm planning to play on you that will take place when I'm DEAD.

Hello! Not serious!

Please return to your thread puzzling over how a human being at PRS could possibly have miscounted cavity covers. Hugely mysterious.

"Hey, Tom, what number is this one?"

"I dunno, I think it's 68."

"Thanks! All set. Box this one up."

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-04-2012, 03:56 PM
Pretty cool, Markus.... pretty cool!


Yah-mon................................ Pair of Sigs:biggrin:

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture008.jpg
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture004.jpg

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Are you implying that I actually worry about these things I post Les??


Hello! Not serious!

Hey Shawn, I think I have an idea for next year's Experience!

http://www.hutchinsonhire.co.uk/bigger_inflatables/sumo_suits.jpg

QueenCityGuitars
10-04-2012, 03:59 PM
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture008.jpg

The top on the Vintage Yellow is okay...I guess. :vroam:

sergiodeblanc
10-04-2012, 05:26 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;24688']Hey Shawn, I think I have an idea for next year's Experience!

http://www.hutchinsonhire.co.uk/bigger_inflatables/sumo_suits.jpg

Or this.
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p506/sergiodeblanc/tumblr_lr5s1w6QZM1qcmeve.jpg

LSchefman
10-04-2012, 08:22 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;24688']Hey Shawn, I think I have an idea for next year's Experience!

http://www.hutchinsonhire.co.uk/bigger_inflatables/sumo_suits.jpg

Who thinks this stuff up?

Hopeful Sinner
10-04-2012, 11:17 PM
Schefman and Oppenheim...

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/assets_c/2010/02/odd-couple-posters-thumb-360x450.jpg

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-04-2012, 11:22 PM
I think the outcome of this thread is clear. Bennett must acquire the other 68.

LSchefman
10-04-2012, 11:32 PM
Schefman and Oppenheim...

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/assets_c/2010/02/odd-couple-posters-thumb-360x450.jpg

Only if I get to be the guy with the paisley tie.

Dirty Bob
10-04-2012, 11:39 PM
Are you implying that I actually worry about these things I post Les??

I'm sure you're being facetious, as I am sure you are well aware that I couldn't care less about the provenance...as stated in the OP.
But, to be honest, there are times when I post questions on this forum and cringe as I await your sarcastic reply. I know you mean well Les...but maybe...just maybe....you can actually let me post questions now and then without the need to diminish my attempt to use the forum as a Q & A?


Doc...if it makes you feel any better....I find the two of you quite amusing...,the key to les...is you must embrace him! Be one with him! Let go! Give in to your inner Les! You provide joy for so many readers! Don't end the fun!:dancing:

Dirty Bob
10-04-2012, 11:42 PM
Yah-mon................................ Pair of Sigs:biggrin:







http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture008.jpg
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n480/mark31059/Signature%20PRS/Sig%20-%20883%20-%202/Picture004.jpg

Every time I see these two I have heart palpitations!

docbennett
10-05-2012, 06:07 AM
Schefman and Oppenheim...

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/assets_c/2010/02/odd-couple-posters-thumb-360x450.jpg


Only if I get to be the guy with the paisley tie.

You want to be the one that's dead???? :o:o

I'm more of the Klugman type anyway. :rofl:

Boogie
10-05-2012, 06:42 AM
the key to les...is you must...Be one with him! Let go! Give in to your inner Les! I just threw up a little in my mouth. :lol:

Oh, and that yellow Sig did sound 'OK' thru the Shiva, eh Markie? ;)

docbennett
10-05-2012, 06:48 AM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;24725']I think the outcome of this thread is clear. Bennett must acquire the other 68.

Believe me....I've thought long and hard about it.

Not to imply that PRSi have any connection to long and hard..............ah, forget it.

docbennett
10-05-2012, 07:56 AM
Doc...if it makes you feel any better....I find the two of you quite amusing...,

In my absolute best "Joe Pesci Voice" as I channel "Tommy from "Goodfellas"....

"You find me amusing? I'm funny? Like a clown? I'm here to amuse you?"

Jumps across the table and lunges at Bob. Breaks bottle over his head. Waits for Paul Sorvino to discipline him.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-05-2012, 09:34 AM
Soooo.... c an we talk about a Collection 12-string in that old, perfect, BRW now?

:call:


Ah hell, watching Les and Ned go round and round is more fun.

docbennett
10-05-2012, 11:03 AM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;24759']Ah hell, watching Les and Ned go round and round is more fun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmkqUbCU7xE

BTW....via PM....I think we made up....kinda, sorta.:biggrin:

Dirty Bob
10-05-2012, 12:54 PM
In my absolute best "Joe Pesci Voice" as I channel "Tommy from "Goodfellas"....

"You find me amusing? I'm funny? Like a clown? I'm here to amuse you?"

Jumps across the table and lunges at Bob. Breaks bottle over his head. Waits for Paul Sorvino to discipline him.

Ahh....Bennett what a can of worms you just opened...I am from NY....and I spent four years at Fordham in the Bronx...Fordham Road, Webster Ave, Arthur and Belmont Ave's...Hughes, Bathgate, Lorrillard...

Sets The needle in the groove... "Come Together" starts to play... Followed later by "Ten Commandments of Love"

Bob (as Sonny) walks across the bar...locks the door...looks at Bennett..." Now youse can't leave."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leLJ-xO3Fwc&sns=em

LSchefman
10-05-2012, 01:07 PM
You want to be the one that's dead????

I "don't fear the reaper." ;)

But it's all about the awesome paisley tie.

Braz 12 string = good.

docbennett
10-05-2012, 01:09 PM
Ahh....Bennett what a can of worms you just opened...I am from NY....and I spent four years at Fordham in the Bronx...Fordham Road, Webster Ave, Arthur and Belmont Ave's...Hughes, Bathgate, Lorrillard...


I know the neighborhood all too well. As recently as 2007, I was coordinating Rapid Opiate Detox in a Surgi-Center in a neighborhood about 2 miles from the Bronx Zoo.....but one that had a calculated street survival rate of approximately 3 minutes...AKA you walk around the neighborhood for more than 3', odds are that you're gonna get shot.

Oh...during my internship days in the late 70's....I moonlighted at a Medicaid Clinic on the Grand Concourse and 148th St. Not to mention the group home I worked at for 2 years in the early '80's located between Park and Morris....right near the elevated D train where they would throw bricks and light-bulbs at you from the platform as you tried to negotiate the path from your car to the hi-rise tenement where the group home was housed.

Have I stirred up some memories??? Have I explained why you moved to the South West??? :laugh:

Edit...or did you??? I see your location has changed....or am I imagining things???

Edit Edit....great scene from a great movie, BTW

Dirty Bob
10-05-2012, 01:37 PM
I know the neighborhood all too well. As recently as 2007, I was coordinating Rapid Opiate Detox in a Surgi-Center in a neighborhood about 2 miles from the Bronx Zoo.....but one that had a calculated street survival rate of approximately 3 minutes...AKA you walk around the neighborhood for more than 3', odds are that you're gonna get shot.

Oh...during my internship days in the late 70's....I moonlighted at a Medicaid Clinic on the Grand Concourse and 148th St. Not to mention the group home I worked at for 2 years in the early '80's located between Park and Morris....right near the elevated D train where they would throw bricks and light-bulbs at you from the platform as you tried to negotiate the path from your car to the hi-rise tenement where the group home was housed.

Have I stirred up some memories??? Have I explained why you moved to the South West??? :laugh:

Edit...or did you??? I see your location has changed....or am I imagining things???

Edit Edit....great scene from a great movie, BTW


I actually don't live all that far away from you...I live in Westchester NY....born and raised New Yorker...although I live in Bedford now...as opposed to The Fordham section of The Bronx..."a world unto itself...where any borough is only 15 minutes away....but they seem 3,000 miles away."


And yes...you stirred up many memories...the interesting thing about being down there was if you walked on Arthur typically you were fine...(although ownership down there has changed somewhat these days) but if you walked a block or two in the wrong direction...you might not come back.

I actually got married at the Botanical Gardens...

Love all of those movies....

docbennett
10-05-2012, 01:58 PM
I actually don't live all that far away from you...I live in Westchester NY....born and raised New Yorker...although I live in Bedford now...as opposed to The Fordham section of The Bronx..."a world unto itself...where any borough is only 15 minutes away....but they seem 3,000 miles away."


And yes...you stirred up many memories...the interesting thing about being down there was if you walked on Arthur typically you were fine...(although ownership down there has changed somewhat these days) but if you walked a block or two in the wrong direction...you might not come back.

I actually got married at the Botanical Gardens...

Love all of those movies....

Bedford is as far from the Bronx as Beverly Hills....figuratively speaking. Although Arthur Ave is still the "sine qua non" for Italian cuisine. Do you run into Bill and Hillary often?? As far as the movies...you win...hands down. Chas Palmentari could beat the crap out of Joe Pesci any day. :laugh:

Dirty Bob
10-05-2012, 02:02 PM
Chas actually lives relatively close to me...I think his daughter goes to the same school as my son. We moved up here in August. I haven't seen Bill or Hillary around town yet...although there is much less of a town here than in Chappaqua where they used to be...the actual Bedford Village Green is pretty tiny.

My favorite restaurant down there is Pasquale's Rigoletto...fantastic food.

gag halfrunt
10-05-2012, 02:39 PM
It's funny, I went to school an hour away from NYC, and visited many times. But it remains a foreign land to me.

Dirty Bob
10-05-2012, 02:46 PM
Bill...where did you go to school?

I can't remember you aren't from around this area are you?

gag halfrunt
10-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Bill...where did you go to school?

I can't remember you aren't from around this area are you?

PM sent.