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View Full Version : Am I Being Unreasonable with PRS???



slang05
10-06-2012, 01:16 PM
Prs is awesome

Thank you for your time

sergiodeblanc
10-06-2012, 01:30 PM
I feel you are being unreasonable, intonation needs to be checked just like the air in your tires.

Joshmc5150
10-06-2012, 01:31 PM
I think they was pretty fair into the response to you. A lot of things happen in shops.. You got to remember you have a large amount of folks who wanna joy ride these guitars in a shop. Younger kids who detune these things and think lower action is faster... The older tire kickers of instruments.. And the person doing the set up at the shop selling it.

LindseyP
10-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Any guitar that's been in the shop for a year needs to be checked by the dealer, that's the person responsible for the instrument's upkeep prior to sale.

Twinfan
10-06-2012, 01:41 PM
Sounds like someone at the shop messed with it to me. Your issue should be with them and not PRS?

JMintzer
10-06-2012, 02:08 PM
PRS is not being unreasonable. They have nothing to apologize for. Humidity varies widely across the country, how shops store their guitars vary widely. I've been to GCs where 3/4 of the guitars are unplayable. Do you think they all came that way from the various factories?

Having been to the PRS factory more times than I can count, I've seen their meticulous set-ups. While very guitar may not be set up to every single person's personal specs, they are set up to PRS' standards. They are intonated when they leave the factory.

Shipping a guitar across the country will change things, as will having a guitars sit in a shop and be played and handled by who know whom. I would have insisted the shop change the strings and properly set up and intonate the guitar BEFORE taking it home. Any decent shop would do this...


Jamie

LSchefman
10-06-2012, 02:08 PM
I agree, you're being a little unreasonable. The guitar has been out of PRS' hands for a year.

Plus this..."I just thought you should know that now a true PRS believer has a bit of skepticism about the quality of your guitars and I can't imagine it not affecting a future buying decision, especially when PRS guitars are so expensive" is kind of a hard-ass way to deal with a company you're asking for help from, for something that is clearly not a manufacturing defect.

This is a trivial issue, really. I don't know if you're trying to make PRS look bad, but it just seems the whole approach is wrongheaded.

Jester
10-06-2012, 02:23 PM
Yeah, I think you are off a bit. Your original email is fine. Their response is also fine. A guitar that has been on display for a year is bound to get toyed with a bit. Intonation is not a big deal to set. I would not be upset if I were you.

Jester
10-06-2012, 02:24 PM
Hey, how about some pix of that DC3? Share the NGD.

Hopeful Sinner
10-06-2012, 02:30 PM
There are so many flaws in your argument, I am surprised you got a response at all. First, you bought a guitar that didn't play well and needed a set up and expected it to fix itself on the drive to your place... Second, you bought a guitar that didnt play well and needed a set up and expected it to fix itself on the drive to your place... PRS make some magical instruments but Hogwarts they are not... It is 100% your dealer's responsibility to ensure proper set up of the guitar before it leaves the store. And yes, a lot can happen in 365 days at a retail location.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-06-2012, 02:31 PM
I just discovered it needs to be intonated! It is way off. I am flabbergasted! I am truly shocked that a guitar that lists for $3000 needs to be intonated. A PRS guitar at that! I can understand how a guitar might need to be set up, but intonated too? I guess they go hand and hand?

Shouldn't I get some sort of apology?
Okay, I have to admit that this is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. SOOOOO dramatic for something so simple.

- If you change string size on your guitars after it was set up, intonation will need to be adjusted.
- If you use the same size high E and heavier low end, the intonation will need to be checked.
- If the guy that did the intonation frets the string like he's gripping a baseball bat and you have a lighter touch, the intonat... aw hell, you get the point.

You asked for an honest opinion from the court of public opinion. You got it.

If you adjust the intonation yourself, it will be set for the strings you prefer and for your grip. It's a 5 minute task and quite simple.

cjmwrx
10-06-2012, 02:58 PM
Yes, you are being unreasonable. As Hans stated, it is quite common for a guitar's intonation to need to be adjusted, for one of many reasons.

Mikegarveyblues
10-06-2012, 03:47 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;24920']Okay, I have to admit that this is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. SOOOOO dramatic for something so simple.

- If you change string size on your guitars after it was set up, intonation will need to be adjusted.
- If you use the same size high E and heavier low end, the intonation will need to be checked.
- If the guy that did the intonation frets the string like he's gripping a baseball bat and you have a lighter touch, the intonat... aw hell, you get the point.

You asked for an honest opinion from the court of public opinion. You got it.

If you adjust the intonation yourself, it will be set for the strings you prefer and for your grip. It's a 5 minute task and quite simple.

+1

Heck. I have to set the intonation and adjust the truss rod / bridge height on ALL my guitars twice a year (At the very least)to keep them in optimal playing condition. This isn't a fault of the guitars, it's just the way it is. They need maintenance to keep them playing sweet. Doesn't matter how much they cost or who made them.

The guitar has been sat in a shop for a year. It's probably gone through a lot of changes in humidity. perhaps played by God knows how many folks. Why the heck didn't the shop set it up. They should have done. Now, if it was box fresh, straight from the PRS factory and it looked as if it had never been set up then you'd have had a point perhaps. But come on... A year in a shop?!

You shouldn't be remotely shocked that a '$3000 PRS guitar' needs intonating after a year. I'd be shocked if it didn't. Guitars need maintenance.

gear_freak
10-06-2012, 03:48 PM
This should have been taken up with the dealer. They should have made sure you were happy before walking out the door. Yes, you're being unreasonable.

veinbuster
10-06-2012, 04:06 PM
This should have been taken up with the dealer. They should have made sure you were happy before walking out the door.
Yes they should have, but the purchaser has the power. If you knew it wasn't right leaving the store, you should have kept your money. If I played something in the store that wasn't right I would give the store the chance to prove it could be a good guitar by setting it up to my liking. If they couldn't I would move on.

If for some reason the guitar was irresistible in spite of its playability and I was uncomfortable doing the setup myself, I might send the guitar to PTC to setup for me. They will put it back to spec and send you back a guitar that plays like a PRS should.

ExpatGirl
10-06-2012, 04:41 PM
Yes, you are being unreasonable. You should not have bought the guitar if it was in that kind of shape. Also, any reputable dealer should not have sold you a guitar if it was in that condition. Take the guitar back to the dealer and tell them to make it right.

TGSCAN
10-06-2012, 04:52 PM
BOOM !


Yes they should have, but the purchaser has the power. If you knew it wasn't right leaving the store, you should have kept your money. If I played something in the store that wasn't right I would give the store the chance to prove it could be a good guitar by setting it up to my liking. If they couldn't I would move on.

If for some reason the guitar was irresistible in spite of its playability and I was uncomfortable doing the setup myself, I might send the guitar to PTC to setup for me. They will put it back to spec and send you back a guitar that plays like a PRS should.

wilerty
10-06-2012, 07:20 PM
... in addition to the remarks already made, the guitar might have already been sold once (or twice) by the dealer and it was returned after the buyer screwed up the neck ...

Dirty Bob
10-06-2012, 07:22 PM
You know.....


Ummm....Yeah...I got nothin that hasn't already been said.

Poffypoffa
10-06-2012, 07:31 PM
Just adding my thought for the record--you are absolutely being unreasonable. I thought their response was surprisingly polite considering the tone of your email, as well. Just my opinion.

alantig
10-06-2012, 08:30 PM
+1 to the previous comments. The dealer should have adjusted the setup before you walked out the door. I had a dealer adjust a setup for me with no commitment to buying a guitar - I said the action felt high, can you check it while I grab something to eat, and when I got back, it was perfect.

And to give you an idea how a neck can shift, I once bought a guitar that was set up perfectly in the shop. Three hour drive home, put it in the basement. The next day, it was maybe a bit buzzy, but nothing that gave me any cause for concern. The day after that, virtually unplayable.

It's wood. Shift happens.

Artist
10-06-2012, 08:38 PM
+1 to what every one said. I also find it very puzzling that if over the years you have owned 15 new $3000 PRS guitars plus countless others used then how come you do a setup that doesn't include checking the intonation? That is just part of a normal setup. Why do you have to spend an evening intonating it? That is a 15 minute activity, just grab a screwdriver, move the saddles and tune. I am sure you lost more time writing that email and doing this post.
The guitar sat for over a year, obviously the dealer touched it at some point, you did a setup and then expect it to be still intonated to factory specs? How are you sure it wasn't you doing the setup that affected the intonation?

Also remember that you bought the guitar from the dealer not PRS. They should be the ones to handle this complaint and determine if it was their error or escalate to PRS. What did the dealer say to you when you showed them how badly it was setup? I am sure that if the dealer had received a flawed guitar they would have returned it back to PRS on a heartbeat.

Sorry if we sound harsh but you are being very unreasonable asking for an apology when there is none needed and making a big deal of something so trivial. I would agree with you if there was a defect on the guitar and nothing was done to fix it.

bluefade
10-06-2012, 08:56 PM
IN A WORD YOU ARE BEING AN IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wake up !! YOU BOUGHT A GUITAR, THAT WAS KICKING AROUND THE MANS STORE FOR A YEAR, WITH SET UP PROBLEMS! NOW YOU WANT THE FACTORY TO EAT IT!! BAD ANSWER!!!! DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING?

JMintzer
10-06-2012, 09:14 PM
IN A WORD YOU ARE BEING AN IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wake up !! YOU BOUGHT A GUITAR, THAT WAS KICKING AROUND THE MANS STORE FOR A YEAR, WITH SET UP PROBLEMS! NOW YOU WANT THE FACTORY TO EAT IT!! BAD ANSWER!!!! DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING?

Calling anyone "An Idiot" is unacceptable. Please refrain for doing so in the future. Thank you.


Jamie

Serious Poo
10-06-2012, 09:22 PM
It's a dealer issue, IMHO you should reach out to them. Remember, you didn't buy the guitar from PRS - you bought it from a guitar store. Same thing as buying a sports car, you don't yell at BMW if there's wear on the tires when you buy a car - you have the dealer fix it before you drive it off the lot.

Goldtop
10-06-2012, 09:23 PM
I have to echo what everybody else has said in one way or another. This isn't the fault (or the problem) of PRS. This is something you should have noticed when you tried the guitar in the first place.

Also, what's the big deal about 'having' to set the intonation yourself? If you don't know how, then it doesn't make sense to me that you've bought as many guitars as you say you have. And if you do know how, then what's the trouble? Practically every player I've ever heard of - myself included - enjoys working on their gear themselves. I'm not saying this applies to you, but I've literally seen posts on boards from people asking how to change strings on the new PRS (or whatever) guitar they just bought. They can supposedly afford a new instrument of that caliber, yet they're clueless as to how to do the most basic and simple upkeep on them? Something is wrong with that picture to me. Maybe it's a sign of the times today...

That's another tangent for another forum, but as far as your question goes: Try to lighten up. Do the work yourself, or have it done if that's the way you need to go, and get on with your life. If you're simply unable or unwilling to do that, then take it up with the dealer. You're allowing something trivial to affect the enjoyment of having a new guitar. Either way, it is not the problem of PRS.

Goldtop

Harker1440
10-06-2012, 09:38 PM
Hell YeS You Are!!!!!!!

Mike Duncan
10-06-2012, 09:46 PM
Dealer issue. No question.

Daniel
10-06-2012, 09:49 PM
... in addition to the remarks already made, the guitar might have already been sold once (or twice) by the dealer and it was returned after the buyer screwed up the neck ...

That was my first thought. The guitar's been there for a year, the action was unplayble (strings laying on the frets) and the intonation was off? Somebody who didn't know what they were doing screwed with that guitar. Better check the condition and height of the knife-edge screws in the trem.

Rosewoodsteel
10-07-2012, 08:52 AM
Do you think they all came that way from the various factories?

Some Gibsons- yes. PRS- no.

Rosewoodsteel
10-07-2012, 09:46 AM
Slang,

It sounds like you got a great price for a guitar that needed a setup.
I would agree, that it was must likely tinkered with by someone at the dealer.
Why look a gift horse in the mouth ? :)

butterfly
10-07-2012, 10:55 AM
Seems to me the PRS customer service response was honest, reasonable and sincere. I am not sure I would say you were being unreasonable in emailing PRS but I think the issue goes more to the dealer than the guitar itself. I don't recall you asking PRS for anything, so who knows, perhaps they appreciate feedback about their dealer network? None of us know, maybe yours was not the not only email about the dealer? Who knows, not me. I agree that the guitar is what is was, and you recognized the issues at the dealer--and apparently know how to intonate and fix them yourself. That puts you beyond many retail customers, as does your extensive experience with electric guitars and PRS in particular. So its probably not reasonable to expect a guitar that has been sitting in a shop for a year or more to retain its factory set up. IMO.

OsirisProtocol
10-07-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm just confused as to how you could do the initial setup then complain that the guitar wasn't intonated afterwards? It's one thing if you tried and couldn't get the guitar to intonate but it sounds like you didn't even check it in the first place which is befuddling to me. That's on the basic setup checklist for me and I'm sure every other tech, player and roadie out there.

rugerpc
10-07-2012, 06:30 PM
In a word, yes. I'm having a hard time understanding why you bought the guitar in the first place.

Caveat emptor

"Setup" ALWAYS includes intonation. A guitar is not 'set up' until it is completely playable.

Like Jamie, I have made many trips to the factory, guitars simply don't leave the factory in the condition you describe. So did the dealer really say a new guitar arrived in that condition or is this embellishment? I'm believing this part of the story about as much as I believe the story of another forum member that the NEW PRS guitars in his local store were rusted and had fret burs... Didn't happen


You made a poor buying decision. Have the guitar set up properly and move on...

slang05
10-07-2012, 07:38 PM
PRS is awesome!

Thanks for your input!!

JMintzer
10-07-2012, 07:47 PM
Not to excuse someone calling you an idiot (he was warned not to do that, btw...), but you did ask, in your first post, and I quote:


What do you guys think? Am I being an idiot?

And to quote Wiilie Wonka...

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/27362134.jpg

:D


Jamie

slang05
10-07-2012, 08:01 PM
LOL.. I guess I did...I forgot..I felt a little blinded after reading all the responses...

LearnedHand
10-07-2012, 08:01 PM
Yes Slang, you are being unreasonable. What you should do, since you got guitar supposedly at a deep discount, sent it to the PRS PTC for a complete setup. I believe the DC3 has a bolt on neck. As such if something majorly needs to be done they can rework it. Guitar should be under warranty. That warranty should be honored if there is a major problem.

slang05
10-07-2012, 08:10 PM
Thats really good advice..I did think about it..BUT it plays amazing now that I've put some time into..Great guitar. I never thought a maple neck PRS would be so amazing

Dirty Bob
10-07-2012, 08:15 PM
Look I will admit something to make you feel just a bit better...when I bought my first PRS with phase II tuners I tried to wrap them like vintage tuners...all my guitars had winged tuners....how was I supposed to know???...anyway I called the PTC and said i had some tuning instability issue...I even sent back the guitar to Shawn...he called me and politely pointed out my idiocy which I submit humbly now on this forum to be humiliated by all...the difference is I called PRS and asked them for help...expecting I might have to pay to have it fixed the way I wanted it...so I approached it a bit differently.

Live and learn...oh yeah...I also learned in college that if you can somehow take the humiliation squarely on the chin and live to do something even more stupid it made you stronger....warped but true.

CE-man
10-07-2012, 08:23 PM
If the guitar sat around for a year there is no end to what may have transpired during that time. Between the environment, string changes, people, and woods natural tendency to expand and contract, I can understand how it may have needing something. I believe PRS does have high quality control but it's possible something slipped through the cracks. Anyway, I feel the dealer should have gone over the guitar once it was sold and done any adjustments necessary to assure the guitar was playing in top form before it even left the store. I believe this should be done whether it's a $300 or $3000 guitar.

rugerpc
10-07-2012, 08:24 PM
Maybe it is just me, but I'm having a hard time with this part:


The strings were resting on the frets and it was impossible to fret a single note cleanly. I checked the neck, it had slight relief in it, exactly like it should. When I asked about it, they said that was the way it came in. I agreed to buy the guitar because of the deal I got (it had been there a year) and took it home in hopes that it would play like how I thought it would. Basically, I bought it on blind faith.

And like I said, I've bought several PRS guitars and the thought of buying one that's not set up properly (and by that, I do not mean to my liking) and needs to be intonated, it just blows me away.

My response was not intended to be harsh, it's just that this seems a bit like a fish story...

Did the dealer actually claim the guitar arrived at their store with the strings resting on the frets???

Dirty Bob
10-07-2012, 08:37 PM
I'll also tell you I wouldn't want to be the dealer that you just called out on this...

Zephyr
10-07-2012, 10:02 PM
I agree with Hans, I would look at the dealers prior actions first of all. My wife bought me a SE from guitar center that was absolutely horrible. The fret ends were pulled away from the fingerboard, the fingerboard was so dry it seemed as it was coarse to the touch, and the inlays were rough as well. I returned it after having to have my lawyer contact them because they didn't want to give me a complete refund. (Lol! The advantages of having a lawyer in the family.) Anyways I bought the same guitar from Sweetwater, And it is more than I expected. My guess bud is the dealer gave you a discount because they knew they messed with it beyond factory spec.

slang05
10-07-2012, 10:44 PM
I'll also tell you I wouldn't want to be the dealer that you just called out on this...

I should've taken that out, they are good people with a great store. I got an amazing deal from them. I wish I wouldn't have emailed PRS and I especially wish I wouldn't have started this thread. I wasn't trying to upset anybody, or get my ass handed too me. I guess it just made sense to me that the guitar had came in messed up and that's why it hung on the wall for a year. This store sells TONS of PRS guitars so why couldn't they sell this one? Being a PRS lover and someone who has and does own several I was blown away by how crappy it was. And I bought it! What does that tell you? I'm an idiot? Sure I'm idiot. I bought a PRS that played like crap because of my previous experiences with the brand and my belief in their quality. My bad.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-07-2012, 11:05 PM
I should've taken that out, they are good people with a great store. I got an amazing deal from them. I wish I wouldn't have emailed PRS and I especially wish I wouldn't have started this thread. I wasn't trying to upset anybody, or get my ass handed too me. I guess it just made sense to me that the guitar had came in messed up and that's why it hung on the wall for a year. This store sells TONS of PRS guitars so why couldn't they sell this one? Being a PRS lover and someone who has and does own several I was blown away by how crappy it was. And I bought it! What does that tell you? I'm an idiot? Sure I'm idiot. I bought a PRS that played like crap because of my previous experiences with the brand and my belief in their quality. My bad.
What are you playing at?

Something just seems odd about this whole discussion. It doesn't add up.

slang05
10-07-2012, 11:26 PM
What am I playing at?

Don't know what that means dude? Either way, I'm done talking about it.

Dirty Bob
10-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Listen...Hans is one of the moderators....he also has owned a disgusting amount of PRS (but completely reasonable in my book)...as have many here....if issues arise with PRS guitars which they in fact do from time to time...(he would be the first to tell you that they do)...most here would agree that PRS has an impeccable track record as a company for making it right.

They cannot be held responsible for what happens once the guitar leaves their factory...I'm sure constructive negative feedback concerning one of their dealers might lead to changes at that dealer.

In addition this is a pretty close community...very open too I might add...but leading with insults and accusations regarding an issue that to many seems fairly straight forward is not a good starting point.

Asking for help is one thing....dragging a company's name through the mud for no darn good reason is quite another.

Dirty Bob
10-07-2012, 11:45 PM
Hot apple pie a la mode with brown sugar and cinnamon....

slang05
10-07-2012, 11:45 PM
I'm not dragging anybody or PRS thru the mud.

Dirty Bob
10-07-2012, 11:51 PM
Fried


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4mfyaVwQq8&sns=em

slang05
10-07-2012, 11:52 PM
Does anybody know how to delete ones profile?

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
10-07-2012, 11:54 PM
What am I playing at?

Don't know what that means dude? Either way, I'm done talking about it.

What it means, dude, is that you came on here guns blazing over something incredibly basic. You used words like "flabbergasted" to describe your dismay over an issue you should have resolved before dropping your hard-earned cash and walking out the door. Then you came here looking for sympathy when the polite and appropriate response you got from PRS customer service didn't yield the desired result.

You escalated things. Instead of taking the responses (which you asked for) like a man, you pass it off like your real mistake was placing your faith in the reputation PRS Guitars - something about 230 people bust their can to build every single day.

That, dude, is some serious BS.

Look, we could speculate for the next 20 years about why that guitar had issues (that magically went away with a simple set-up?) but that is 100% beside the point. YOU walked out of a store with a new guitar that failed to function as you thought it should. You have said that you bought it at a discount because of those issues so you KNEW that it needed a proper set-up. Yet... you come here "Flabbergasted" and "Truly shocked" that it needed a proper set-up? How does that make a lick of sense?

As I asked you earlier... what are you playing at?


I'm done talking about it.

I accept. Thread locked. Horse Dead.

EDIT: I see that you have deleted your original post and are looking to delete your profile. My suggestion is get back on the horse (a new one, of course) and start anew tomorrow. As was already suggested, post an NGD for your new guitar. I think you'll find people to be pretty forgiving. We've ALL (looks at self) had a turn in your seat.