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View Full Version : Why are so many people reluctant of PRS's?



Boogeyman
11-29-2012, 12:50 PM
Since i'm here with a bunch of PRS "believers" LOL, I might as well ask if any of you have noticed the same thing in people that I have. They see and or play my guitars and say they LOVE them, then they turn around and buy a gibson or fender? I am the only one of all the freinds I have that plays PRS's. I know they're expensive, but any guitar of this caliber is expensive. I bought both of mine used and saved a big chunk of change, so I dont know if price is really the factor. People i know just seem to be reluctant to even consider PRS and I dont understand it?

Boogeyman
11-29-2012, 12:54 PM
...As I hit "submit" I think, "All I really want to own is PRS", so maybe thats the way others feel about their Fenders and Gibsons I guess?...You can lead a horse to water but you cant mak'em drink it

Sekunda
11-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Good question... I have experienced this as well and have no explanation for it. Maybe some are scared of the stigma of owning a "quality" guitar... Hehe. Jokes aside, my friends all love my PRS guitars yet never buy one when they pick up something new as well... I guess you stick with what you know. I would pick up a Les Paul but can't find one with a neck that's comfortable to me. So I stick with these. Plus I have a PRS amp now as well... What does that say about me? Fanboy? Or quality driven?
:rock:

SausageofPower
11-29-2012, 12:58 PM
Eh, some people think of PRS as more of a boutique brand. Also, the original signature artists weren't everyone's cup of tea (Santana, Schon, etc.). So, unless you've been keeping up, you've got no reason to know that PRS has been expanding. Now they cover more of the hard rock and metal genre, which should pull in more people. Also, their SE line is the best for imports. As they continue to diversify their lineup and endorsees, they should be more viable to everyday players. Not to mention, with Fender and Gibson having questionable QC...

markie
11-29-2012, 01:02 PM
I'm not reluctant :biggrin:

south89
11-29-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm with Markie I ain't scared as a matter of fact its all I own . Oh except for one tele. I had a friend that was playing strats but he just got his first used SE 245 and its all he is playing now :beer:

satchmo72
11-29-2012, 01:23 PM
I was reluctant to look at PRS previously due to cost (I cant afford to make a mistake) There is nothing wrong with a good strat or Les Paul but you know exactly what you are getting with those. PRS on the other hand is an expensive guitar that most have not had a chance to really play. I sat down in many different shops over the course of 2 years playing a whole bunch of different stuff. The only guitar out of all of the ones I played fit both the playability I was looking for along with the sound in my head that I wanted was the PRS. I figured if Dave Weiner could play with Vai and write his own stuff using a PRS, I could definitely make it work.

LSchefman
11-29-2012, 01:36 PM
I think it's because, to an astonishing degree, rock and roll stage performance is still a predictable set-piece with traditional rules laid down in the 50s and 60s. It's more predictable than an opera performance.

Band dressed in hip subculture bad-ass costume, starting with Brando-Wild-Ones influenced garb from early 1950s. Stage moves by guitar player dating back to Chuck Berry, as later embellished by Hendrix/Townsend/etc. Iconic period guitar, preferably worn-looking. I could go on, but you get the basic idea. There is a "look", there are expectations. Whether these come from the audience's desires or not, I can't say.

For people who care a lot about that kind of thing (you'd be surprised how many real-deal bands are all about it), a PRS isn't going to do, because it wasn't played in 1963. It's the wrong look. It's somewhat dressed-up. The beauty of the maple tops certainly influence the perception of the brand, since Miras and Starlas would be the right look in any dressed-down situation.

Of course, an increasing number of artists are discovering that PRSes aren't only for looks. They sound great, and more are on big stages all the time.

And from time to time, we see innovative stage performances. But mostly...Spinal Tap and more Spinal Tap... ;)

QueenCityGuitars
11-29-2012, 01:36 PM
In my experiences, guitar buyers tend fall into 3 generalized categories:

1. They buy the guitar they think sounds, feels, and looks good.
2. They buy the guitar their favorite guitarist plays.
3. They buy the guitar that portrays an image they want their audience to perceive them to have.

When I play my PRS guitars, I think they sound, feel, and look so good that I don't want to put them down. That's a good guitar to me.

QueenCityGuitars
11-29-2012, 01:52 PM
I forgot the last category:

4. They buy the guitar with the highest collector value/potential.

sergiodeblanc
11-29-2012, 02:05 PM
I forgot the last category:

4. They buy the guitar with the highest collector value/potential.

Ding ding ding!

themike
11-29-2012, 02:12 PM
I own 8 Maryland made Paul Reed Smith guitars ..... and 0 other brands. Why?

Becuase I love the product, the company, the people and their values. No lies, no gimmicks and no marketing ploy - its just how I feel.

Now excuse me while I go open the christmas card I just got from my guitar company in the mail :)

Harker1440
11-29-2012, 04:58 PM
I think it also has alot to do with posted pricing of PRS guitars online and in stores. At my local GC you walk in the front doors and some of the first guitars you see are PRS hanging on the wall the cheapest is a $1000 Torero the next one is a $3000 SC245
and past those are dozens of Fenders Gibsons Epis Squire Schecters Esp Jackson Ibanez guitars under $500, I heard one guy tell his son that if he won the powerball then he could afford one of the "High Dollar Rich peoples guitars" and he was pointing to a Ted SC Soapbar.

rugerpc
11-29-2012, 05:15 PM
In my experiences, guitar buyers tend fall into 3 generalized categories:

1. They buy the guitar they think sounds, feels, and looks good.
2. They buy the guitar their favorite guitarist plays.
3. They buy the guitar that portrays an image they want their audience to perceive them to have.

When I play my PRS guitars, I think they sound, feel, and look so good that I don't want to put them down. That's a good guitar to me.


Actually, this is wrong for the greater percent of the unwashed out there. Just walk into any big retailer like a GC and watch the interaction for a little while.

Customers are actually steered to inferior guitars by the sales staff. The goal is to make a quick sale, not spend time with a customer and find out what they really want or suggest something to them that they have never considered - certainly not at the new price-point for a core PRS.

I have watched both talented and decidedly untalented customers gravitate to the usual brands without ever even glancing at the PRSi on the wall. I have seen this to the point that I believe that the average guitar player doesn't even know what they really want.

I was lucky. When I started playing, I had a friend introduce me to PRS very early on - long before I was even taking lessons.

You may think that they are, but the salesperson is not your friend. It is possible that they may appear to be your friend once you spend enough in the store, or once you are there often enough that both you and they know what you are really looking for, but until then your are merely a mobile wallet support unit, and the goal is to extract cash as quickly as possible and then move on to the next wallet.



The solution is for you and your friends to shop local and in a smaller store. Get to know the owner and his staff and let them get to know you.

Michael B
11-29-2012, 05:22 PM
I was reluctant as well, had many gibsons and Jacksons and Deans. Always knew PRS guitars were sweet and started jamming with a guy from work who had a Artist custom 24 and I just loved how it played and felt and performed. Went without ever playing one and ordered my Tremonti and the love affair had begun! Having 3 Les Paul's I knew I wanted a singlecut and boy did I make a phenominal decision!!! It was like a Ferrari after the lesters...sold them and my 3 flying v's. Then I bought a Mira later and a SE 245 all upgraded with usa parts.....best guitars on the planet!!! Glad I finally played one and found everything I was looking for in a guitar!!!

Mikegarveyblues
11-29-2012, 05:30 PM
Psychology...

For many their favourite players - their icons - played Strats, Tele's, SG's and Lp's, etc so that's what they gravitate towards. Do they dare to be a little different or do they go with the herd mentality?

I suspect there's a lot of folks pull PRS's apart on certain forums when in actual fact they love them.

Fender & Gibson have got decades on PRS. The 50's, 60's and 70's - perhaps the 80's where the golden age of guitar and Strats and LP's where King. People still hold onto that and PRS has been playing catch up ever since.

It's quite clear that slowly but surely people are coming around.

More and more people are trying out PRS's and liking what they hear and see and feel and... In quite a few cases... Accepting their beloved 'other brand' pales compared to the PRS they just bought.

Artist endorsements are fairly important and perhaps PRS could do with a few more big names on the roster.

Give it time. PRS are on the up and have been for a while.

Boogie
11-29-2012, 10:31 PM
There's nothing wrong with being the best. I came to PRS because it is the best. And looking fantastic has nothing (<-- that's a lie!) to do with it...it's a fringe benefit. Even if they were Soapy McFuglies, I'd own 'em. It wasn't due to an artist endorsement (sorry Howie!), or the reviews in Guitar Player, it was because I went into a store and played a dozen of them, and every one was spectacular. Where else does this happen? Honestly, it only happens in a few other places (Porsche comes to mind) and aspiring to own those doesn't make you a douche. Treating others like they're subpar, does. If they prefer the other stuff, good for them.

solacematt
11-29-2012, 10:43 PM
I want to also add ignorance to this as well. My all-time favorite band is Smashing Pumpkins, and their frontman, who is known for playing mainly strats and even has a Fender signature model. Though I'm sure his guitar is great, it doesn't feel right for me, nor does it sound right or play comfortably for me like a PRS does. A few weeks ago there was a gear discussion on the bands official board that sprang up in response to an interview the singer and co-guitarist did. PRS somehow came into mention and one person actually mentioned how they don't like the guitars because bands they don't like/think suck play them, such as quite a few mainstream bands. I of course defended PRS because 1. I thought the posters points were ignorant, and 2. because I honestly feel that the CU24 with the 5-way Rotary knob is the most versatile guitar I've ever played.
A few weeks I was at band practice and showed my drummer the CU24 and introduced the rotary knob to him. He was flipping out. A few days later he was raving about it to the bandmates in the other band he plays in. How this guitar not only has it's own sound, but it can sound like an LP, a strat, a tele, just by turning this knob. I used to love Gibson guitars, but their quality control is horrible and they weigh way too much. PRS guitars are just so comfortable right out of the box. How can one argue with a quality instrument like that?
By the way, I would totally love to see this happen, haha

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/spguitar/39030046.jpg

Mike Duncan
11-29-2012, 10:50 PM
I live in the anti-prog rock world of punk and alternative...NONE of my bands dig on the PRS. I can't figure out why! The tone, price, playability far exceeds what some other companies, who I won't name, are cranking out.

Twinfan
11-30-2012, 02:11 AM
What does tone and playability have to do with punk??? :laugh:

Seriously though, is it more about image in those scenes, and PRS just doesn't fit?

DRM_777
11-30-2012, 05:22 AM
I think a big factor is the price point for an American PRS which is often way above even some professional players budget and are also higher than say a US Les Paul Standard or US Strat Stanard

There is then an assumption that the SE's are just cheap budget versions in the same way that Epiphones are the cheapo Gibsons and Squire are the cheapo Fenders. However I would imagine everyone here knows just is not true at all.

I used to be a big ESP and Ibanez fan and have owned both brands of guitar but have always returned to owning a PRS (for good this time, no selling on and regretting afterwards) but when I compare the likes of ESP and Ibanez (both of whom make lovely guitars) to PRS, PRS just exude an element of class and quality that the others will never have in my opinion.

Some guitarists, especially in the metal/punk world simply don't believe that PRS are "metal" enough and want silly looking pointy sticks which in general, look fugly!!! To me at least.....

It's awesome to see super talented metal players like Emil Werstler and Dave Young embracing PRS full on.

Rodicus
11-30-2012, 06:20 AM
I agree that price point is a big factor, especially for a beginner. Most parents will not buy their child an expensive guitar to learn on. I believe they solved that problem back in the early 2000's with the Santana SE and the Tremonti SE. I started playing guitar in the early ninties and wanted a PRS because Daniel Johns from Silverchair had one. I didn't know what the brand was, I just loved the shape of the guitar. Times are a changing, kids are idolizing PRS now!! My parents got me an Ibanez because it was cheap and looked cool. So when I started college the Tremonti se just came out and I had a newly acquired student loan. Got my PRS. After playing that guitar for 8 years I bought my first US model then another! I think PRS has done a great job at creating a gateway drug in the SE line. Especially with all the models available now. Parents can afford to buy their child a PRS to learn on. More and more kids who are playing these se's are going to step it up when they can afford it too!

rschleicher
11-30-2012, 05:10 PM
As someone who was shopping for my first "quality guitar" a little over a year ago, and who was only moderately aware of PRS guitars prior to that, I can describe my own thought process. First, I was looking for a versatile guitar, with my primary interests being mostly in the classic rock and blues vein. Basically, I'm not going to own that many guitars, so I wanted one that I'd be very happy with, for a variety of situations.

I started out thinking primarily Fender or Gibson, and with a budget range that (in my mind) maxed out at $2k. In general, I knew I liked vintage, PAF-like humbucker tones, but I did want the ability to split coils and get tones that were at least vaguely Strat like. I love the sound and look of Les Pauls, but really didn't like the feel. Conversely, I love the feel and playability of Strats, but they don't really excite me that much. Tele's have a cool vibe, but just seemed too single-purpose to me, and they're not that comfortable, either. The other Gibson I've liked in terms of tone is the ES-335 family, but I wasn't sure about the lack of coil-splitting. I was OK with buying a new guitar, for the right price, but started scouring eBay. Somewhat accidentally, I started noticing various PRS models, and the idea of a Strat-like shape, with LP-like materials and construction, humbuckers, but with single-coil settings, etc., started to grow on me. Then I started to get caught up in the craftsmanship aspect, and the reverence for the brand that just emanates from PRS owners.

After a couple months of looking around, scouring eBay, playing different models at GC, etc., I pretty much narrowed down to a PRS Custom (I would have been OK with either a 24 or a 22, and had a preference for a trem.), a couple of other somewhat related PRS models (e.g. Studio - I was basically thinking double-cut body styles), OR (and I realize that this seems completely unrelated!) a Gibson ES-339 or ES-336 (essentially a ES-335 semi-hollow with a body that is scaled down to be about halfway between an LP and a 335). Sure, these aren't even close. But that's how my mind worked. I wanted a PRS more, but the Gibsons would have been a bit cheaper, and also appealed to me.

Then I saw the guitar I ended up getting on eBay, and snagged it for a really good deal (considering that it was less than a year-old, and in legitimate mint condition). There's just something about PRSi that appeals to me. Part mystique, part quality and craftsmanship, part tone, part playability, and with a dash of being just a little bit less prevalent than a Les Paul or a Strat.

Herr Squid
12-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Some of the reasons I think it happens:
- They're perceived as really expensive, "doctors and lawyers" guitars
- They don't say Fender or Gibson on the headstock
- They never had a unique, compelling sound of their own

Let me say more on that last point. I think it matters more than people believe.

I know people who will spend a lot of money on gear who would say that PRS were built really well, but just never really dug the sound or feel. I think once the vintage guitar craze started, they really never got their pickups dialed in to customers' tastes until the 57/08s. Before that, you saw even PRS devotees planning to change out the pickups on their brand new Customs, McCarty's, and Singlecuts. Alex Lifeson is one of my favorite players and honestly, he sounds better playing Gibson than he does PRS the times I've seen him live.

I took my Modern Eagle to a tone party several years ago, and started hearing comments like "that's the first PRS that really spoke to me." I think now they've got their guitars sounding really really good and people are catching on who didn't before.

solacematt
12-01-2012, 06:07 PM
What does tone and playability have to do with punk??? :laugh:

Seriously though, is it more about image in those scenes, and PRS just doesn't fit?

Yes, with those scenes it's totally about image. With indie rock it's deemed cool to use some no name pawn shop guitar and amp over something decent. I'm friends with the singer/guitarist in a band my band has played a lot with and he's told me quite a few times, I'd love to play a PRS like yours but I would take so much crap for it because it's not considered acceptable in the type of music I play. I told him to have fun with that castrated sounding Fender :p

AP515
12-01-2012, 07:49 PM
In 06 I didn't know what a PRS was. I was an Average Player (I'm still an average player), and I was traveling with an extra day to kill in Phx so I spent part of it at a GC looking for a Les Paul. I couldn't find one that would stay in tune or that didn't have quality issues and all the time there was this amazing Emerald Green Cu24AP on the wall behind the register where no one could get it. I finally asked them to take it off the wall and let me try it. That was all it took. Sure it was more money than I expected to pay, but it was more guitar than I was getting in the other offerings.

It was only after I purchased it and started searching what I had found that I learned some folks wouldn't think they were the most amazing guitars on the planet. I thought all the negative talk was silly. Just play one and we can stop all the blah blah blah. I still think that, but they have to play it without preconceived notions about what it is or what it should be.

DRM_777
12-02-2012, 05:23 AM
I agree that price point is a big factor, especially for a beginner. Most parents will not buy their child an expensive guitar to learn on. I believe they solved that problem back in the early 2000's with the Santana SE and the Tremonti SE.

I would agree, although the cost of SE's seems to be rising these days and I don't really consider them to be a budget guitar any more, they have definitely shifted into the mid range price wise.

I've only every recommended a PRS to one of my students because he really liked my Cu24 SE and he came to me with a budget in mind to buy a new guitar and that was able to get him a new 2011 Cu24 SE for a couple of hundred quid off.

If a parent comes to me for advice on purchasing or upgrading a beginner guitar, I generally recommend good old Yamaha Pacifica's....

Mikegarveyblues
12-02-2012, 06:43 AM
I would agree, although the cost of SE's seems to be rising these days and I don't really consider them to be a budget guitar any more, they have definitely shifted into the mid range price wise.

I've only every recommended a PRS to one of my students because he really liked my Cu24 SE and he came to me with a budget in mind to buy a new guitar and that was able to get him a new 2011 Cu24 SE for a couple of hundred quid off.

If a parent comes to me for advice on purchasing or upgrading a beginner guitar, I generally recommend good old Yamaha Pacifica's....

The Pacificas are very good guitars for the money. Had a few over the years and still have one. Before they came out budget guitars meant plywood and questonable construction, etc. They set a new bar for quality at a low price. They've been overtaken by the other manufacturers since but it was the guitar to have if you wanted something good for tuppence. I'd still recommend a 200 Pacifica over a similar priced Squier or Epi.

SE's are definately mid-priced to me. I tend to look at 'budget as being 300 or less'. It's a crowded world in the mid price category but SE's are without doubt one of the best if not thee best guitars you can buy in that price range. Serious workhorse guitars.

If I had children and they wanted to learn guitar there's no way i'd buy them an SE to start with. Nor would I buy them something that's poor quality.

However, if they started to show potential and looked like they really where going to put the effort in then i'd move them on to a more serious instrument such as an SE.

(Different story if you're looking at used prices I guess.)

sleary
12-02-2012, 06:47 AM
I think a lot has to with keeping an open mind. Gibson and Fender give cash incentives to dealers. Both companies have been around for years and they are a very common name. I've owned three Gibsons ,a studio, SG and a Traditional. Honestly, I feel Prs are much better when it comes to quality and.Qc.

My dealer here has all the name brands. They sit here forever. I bought my se24 from them after ordering it in. Now they have brought the other Prs's in, can't keep them in stock now. The salesman I deal with who has been a long time Gibson player has fallen in love with a se Torino lol. I'm working these people in to changing their minds. Not hard at all either, put a prs in front of them and watch closely....I should ask Prs.for commission lol

JMintzer
12-02-2012, 06:17 PM
I think with the prolific increase of Country players using PRSi, you'll see that trend start to wane...


Jamie

andy474x
12-02-2012, 06:38 PM
I think PRS is still breaking into the market in a sense - yes, the company has been around for 25+ years now, but Fender and Gibson had a big head start, and when we look back at most of the classic sounds (and looks, sadly) of the past, it's a lot of Fender and Gibson. That's one reason I think people are reluctant, they want a certain sound and/or look, and they just aren't familiar with PRS. Heck, I didn't know anything about PRS the first time I saw one of their guitars being played (but you can see how that worked out for me).
I'll also agree with price - people see USA made Fenders and Gibsons going for under a grand, and assume that for how expensive a PRS is, they can't possibly be getting their money's worth when they can get another brand so much cheaper. Then they make the mistake of not actually trying a PRS, and walking out of a store with a Gibson. I won't go near a sub-grand Gibson with a ten foot pole, the necks are like 2x4's with frets, and the action is horrible. I think people buy them for the name and assume it must be good, not knowing how much better it could be. Plain and simple, it's not that cheap to make a high quality guitar in the USA.
And of course, the SE's get thrown in with the other imports. But I'll say this, I've tried plenty of Epi's, Schecter's, ESP/LTD's, Squier's, etc. and they JUST DON'T COMPARE. The Epi's have wobbly knobs, poorly set inlays, and bad setups, dead spots, etc. ESP/LTD's are supposedly made in the same factory as SE's from what I've heard, I'd like to know how that works. I've never heard one that had a good sound even unplugged, they sound like they have rubber bands for strings, so dead. Similar stories for the other brands.

solacematt
12-02-2012, 06:49 PM
A bit off here but, when did PRS start referring to SE's as 'Student Editions.' A friend of mine said when the first Santana SE came out the SE stood for 'Special Edition.'

Dirty Bob
12-02-2012, 09:13 PM
See for me as far as I see with the exception of Some of the ridiculousness that transpires on TGP PRS guitars arrived a long time go..To Jamie's point about country....any time there is an awards show or a special I see more and more PRS being showcased...pretty big across other genre's...hard rock, metal...etc.. Come to think of it many music specials on TV no matter what genre seem to be showcasing PRS. Locally at least as far as the other musicians are concerned they are completely accepted.

The amps on the other hand not as much....I got into it on TGP about this a few days go. I just don't understand why people critique without having any direct experience with a particular piece of gear or instrument....try the tool as it was intended...then give an informed opinion.

andy474x
12-03-2012, 01:34 AM
A bit off here but, when did PRS start referring to SE's as 'Student Editions.' A friend of mine said when the first Santana SE came out the SE stood for 'Special Edition.'

According to PRSh, the "SE" always stood for student edition, it goes back to when Carlos Santana urged him to make a guitar that students could afford. There's an interview floating around on YT where Paul talks about it. But you're right, the company hasn't ever made it abundantly clear what SE stands for.



The amps on the other hand not as much....I got into it on TGP about this a few days go. I just don't understand why people critique without having any direct experience with a particular piece of gear or instrument....try the tool as it was intended...then give an informed opinion.

I feel the same, in fact I think I read the thread you're referring to. A lot of people at TGP (and lots of other places) are knocking the PRS amps, and they've only listened to YT clips and are acting like they know. Or they've played one just to reinforce their preconceived notions, but didn't really give it a fair workout. In an effort to be polite to the others at the shop, they keep the volume at 1 or 2. I'll admit, many of the complaints I've heard about PRS amp tones are true - until you get past "polite" on the volume knob. PRS is making amps to emulate Hendrix tones, using custom transformers for certain power tubes - no one is going for Jimi's famous bedroom tone, c'mon. I play the SE 30, and just like people say, the gain sounds pretty buzzy - until about 12:00 on the volume dial, then it opens way up and RIPS. And probably a few people even on this forum are reading this and thinking the same about my amp that TGP'ers think about all PRS amps "here we go, some guy with an SE amp that thinks its worth a hoot" - if you haven't cranked one up, you don't know. Those things will mess you up (in a good way).

Something funny happened to me recently - I went on vacation for a few days, but my band's practice space is at my place. I leave them a key when I'm out of town so they can jam. Our other guitarist has said from the get go that he thinks PRS guitars are ugly and lame. He's a bit of a hipster type that loves strange/vintage guitars, he usually plays my heavily modded strat through my Tweaker 40 at practice if he doesn't have his own gear there (which is frequently, but NBD to me). Yet when I get home, the recording gear is set up and there's a mic in front of my SE30. And my Akesson sitting next to it. So I asked him today at practice, "hey, did you use my PRS amp to record the other day?" And he replied "Yeah... and your guitar too..." And that's when I knew he couldn't deny it anymore. Boom.

Not that I can blame him, I have a hard time playing my Tweaker anymore either. Lots of people knock the SE amps, and the Tweaker is one of the most loved sub-$1K amps around, but when I play them side by side I keep coming back to the PRS. Maybe I'll sell it to him when I get a Blistertone, or an MDT... Anyways, back to the original point. I have no problem with people who really sit down with a PRS amp and work with it, and flat out don't like it - that's fair. But I think deep down a lot of players are scared, they already see that PRS guitars are better than whatever they play, and they don't want to feel that way about their amps too.

DRM_777
12-03-2012, 04:22 AM
I think it's a fairly safe to say from the responses on this page that those who are reluctant of PRS are either just plain ignorant and have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to PRS, or, they are hipsters who are obviously waaaaay too cool and ahead of the curve to play PRS.....

I have no doubt that there are small number of folks out there who do have a clue and have more than likely tried PRS but it turns out it really just wasnt for them, and that's fair enough and I imagine these are the kinds of players who end up using the likes of Framus and Sadowsky, you know, very much the high end of the spectrum very much like the PRS Private Stock. (I'd love me one of those Sadowsky T models).

Boogie
12-03-2012, 07:36 AM
...A lot of people...are knocking the PRS amps, and they've only listened to YT clips and are acting like they know. Or they've played one just to reinforce their preconceived notions, but didn't really give it a fair workout.

Sadly, this is a pretty accurate view of most of the negative forum chatter out there. Most players are used to setting master volume amps like most Boogie players do...master at 2. Very few Boogies get their real strength - the power stage - exercised. With this in mind, I decided to revisit the HXDA and 25th anniversary amps with a different perspective.

The first time I auditioned these PRS amps I walked away disappointed. There's a modern vibe that I spent years dialing out of my Boogie and with the 2x12 pine cab with V30s, I couldn't get past that mid presence scoop. But I spent the whole time with the master/attenuator at about 50% (in all fairness, I was in a tiny practice room and the volume was debilitating!) and not where these amps shine (75%-100%). Returning to these amps a couple of months later, having really done my homework, the experience was totally different. And after standing directly in front of David Grissom and having him demo the same amps, that was it. Ultimately, you have to step back from your perch (regardless of how many years of experience you have) and listen to those that built the gear. Having a truly knowledgable sales person also helps A LOT.

Boogeyman
12-03-2012, 11:19 AM
Wow, some very good replies! I've considered most of the above mentioned but not all. At least now I know I'm not the only one who is puzzled by the reluctance of others.

butterfly
12-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Don't forget there is a lot pf posturing in on line forums, with people saying things they think would be perceived as cool or accepted. Also, remember in the 90s/00s nu-metal community, PRS ruled. Just like lots of Nashville/country guys play PRS today. In fact, in many popular bands, the guitar player has at least one PRS in the arsenal. And while a PRS may sound like, or even "better" than a vintage Les Paul, it will never be a vintage LP. And that's okay. I love my Les Pauls too. But I don't pay any attention to people who say they would not play a PRS because its a "rich guys" guitar. That's just small mindedness.

moucon
12-30-2013, 11:25 PM
....People i know just seem to be reluctant to even consider PRS and I dont understand it?..

I know this is an old thread, but I just caught it and wanted to toss in my .02. True that you don't see them at "Rock Concerts" so much, but pro players and in particular studio guys who need to get lots of sounds - but want to do it with an instrument they're totally comfortable playing - DO dig on PRS guitars. I really think that's Paul's core market, and it's largely word-of-mouth They've done some things to get into the hands of more 'hobby' players and weekend warriors, and they sell a significant number of guitars so those attempts are not in vain, but at the end of the day the guy who posted about expectations - Look, sound, etc. is right on. Live performance from the big clubs to sheds to arenas is still a Les Paul, SG, ES, Strat, Tele - maybe a Jazzmaster or jag thrown in for good measure... but it's still all about tradition. Classic rock. It's not a big deal if a "Live Rocker" doesn't quite get that first bend on his strat all the way up to pitch - after playing a Gibson for a couple of songs - because the scale and tension is a little different. Second time around he'll nail it, and even if it's being recorded for a "live album" there will be a chance to fix it up post-production. I hope that makes sense. Moving between different guitars onstage does take chops because they're all a little different - but nothing is hyper-critical in a live show (as long as you don't totally blow it and play a clinker..). So no big deal to play an ES-335 on one tune then grab a drop-tuned strat for #2 and then hit the doubleneck 1275 for a little 12-string action... It's all part of the show, and the players in the audience also LOVE seeing all the various axes come out. Peter Frampton has spoken extensively on this topic in various interviews. Also - we want to see Clapton with a Strat, Angus Young with an SG, McCartney with his "Beatle Bass" etc etc.

The studio, especially hourly gigs like recording TV commercials or other "utility" guitar playing recording gigs are nowhere near as forgiving. The name of THAT game is definitely "Time is Money" . Producers need to get the session down in one take, and on to the next. Playing the music perfectly (usually sight-reading) and getting it down in the first take is only half the battle. The "quirks" of someone's 'favorite Strat' or "Vintage Les Paul" - ( weird intonation issues, clicks, rattles, hum, fret buzz, scratchy pots - whatever) can ruin a session or at best cost a lot of money to correct later. All that spells "unprofessional" and "unnecessary hassle". I'm certainly not one of them, but it's amazing to watch a real pro in action. They come in, set up quickly, knock it out perfectly in one or maybe two takes - and it's on to the next thing. A high-end PRS with the right electronics, set up perfectly for that player is a tremendous studio tool. They can become 100% in-touch with the instrument from the standpoint of scale, string tension, intonation, etc. - and still able to get the entire necessary palette of sounds from a convincing Les Paul 'classic rock' to high-gain metal to ES type jazz to a single-coil strat/tele sound and so forth. I've played a G&L F100-2 since 1981 for the same exact reason. It's nowhere near as sophisticated as, say, a PRS 408, but it has all the required single-coil/P90/humbucker/in-out of phase sounds available, making it unnecessary to switch guitars during a session or a gig. While on the subject of "tonal Chameleon" - Paul Jackson (Tonight Show/Jay Leno) plays a PRS 513 the last I knew (now he has a signature model) - but those were absolutely about "any sound - any time" and he has to move fluidly between almost anything you can think of on the show.

Anyway - that's my .02. High-end PRS stuff has already caught on amoungst studio/broadway players. Eventually I suppose a couple of "stars" will show up playing PRS and they'll start to get the "live guitar" cache of a Strat or LP. Every kid will be rushing out to buy an SE version of their favorite rocker's PRS.
- Cheers -
Moo

HANGAR18
12-31-2013, 04:26 AM
I was very critical of PRS when I first saw them in a guitar store. I thought to myself, they have no body, neck or headstock binding, so why do they cost so much if they are presumably easier to make?
(I come from the world of the Gibson Les Paul Custom, or the Heritage H157.) But the difference is in the details. The comfort and playability, the ability to sustain a note for 21 seconds or longer, the tone. That's why I own $3000.00 PRS guitars. Now, I still have my big beefey old school Heritage, solid body and semi-hollow bodied guitars because I still like to dabble with the old school stuff. But the PRS guitars they are making these days just leave everyone else behind. They are the definition of modern. And... That whole bit about drying out the wood really well before making the guitar really works.

GTinSpanishFort
12-31-2013, 09:24 AM
Recently I had a conversation with a guy about half my age and he said PRSi are overpriced. I asked him what he played and he said a Gibson Les Paul Studio. I thought to myself I wouldn't own a Les Paul Studio if someone gave it to me. I've played lots of Les Pauls and Gibson's in general and owned two Gibson's but, quickly got rid of them because they wouldn't stay in tune and didn't sound good. My first PRS was a Swamp Ash Special which sadly I sold but then later purchased a pre-lawsuit singlecut which just blows me away everytime I play it. PRSi just have a singing quality that no other guitar has. For me, it's about the tone first but, a huge bonus are the looks and quality. I still like Fender strats and have been through many of them but, they just bore me to death and I'm wanting a 305 and an NF3.

jfb
12-31-2013, 10:32 AM
I think with the prolific increase of Country players using PRSi, you'll see that trend start to wane...


Jamie

This. I see PRS much more frequently now days.

Therinx
12-31-2013, 10:59 AM
I wondered the same thing, before reading this thread, so i casually asked a few friends of mine one day while hanging out.

All 3 said "resale value". I was perplexed and wondered if they didn't form that opinion 15 years ago and never revisited it.

ElrytNamrogo
12-31-2013, 11:06 AM
I've noticed in a lot of the MF and GC catalogs I get they only have one page dedicated to PRS guitars but will have anywhere between five or ten pages for Gibson, Fender, and Ibanez. The one page of PRS guitars will encompass SE's, S2's, and American models, whereas Squire and Epiphone have all their own sections in the catalog. I'm sure they base that on sales, so it comes to a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kind of deal. Are these magnificent guitars not being advertised because they aren't being sold, or are they not being sold because they're not marketed as much? I know locally, it's hard for me to find American model PRSes in guitar shops....I might find a few SE's but very rarely do I find American models, which really sucks because there are a ton of models I still have yet to try.

Coop
12-31-2013, 11:08 AM
I never dug PRS guitars before playing a CE 22 a few months back. I passed on it, because my wife might have murdered me since I was just starting to play guitar with a group again (I'm more of a bass player). I then played about 15 SE Singlecuts before I found one I liked and lucked out with an SE EG that plays like a dream. Before that CE 22 I never found a PRS that I had a vibe with... It's like that with all guitars for me, but since there are typically less PRS guitars in music stores there has been a decidedly smaller sample size. I was a Fender guy for years (still play P basses and love Teles), but I expect to try out a gigantic pile of Fenders before I find one I like. Just my .02.

LSchefman
12-31-2013, 11:59 AM
People want different things, make different decisions, and spend a lot of time justifying their decisions (and thereby reassuring themselves) after-the-fact. I think this is part of the evolutionary process that has made our genus and species a successful one. Our life process involves constant evaluation and re-evaluation.

There are lots of great choices out there when it comes to stuff. The only thing we can honestly say about the instruments that we choose is that they are what we have found that is best - for us.

What works best for someone else may in fact be something that we would not choose for ourselves.

When someone sticks his/her nose into my business and gives me his/her rundown of why this, that, or the other thing would be a better choice than the one I made, I just have to laugh, because I recognize the symptoms. It's not enough that I made the choice that works for me, it's only OK if the choice I make is the one that works for you!

To some degree, most of us are guilty of this at one time or another, but my feeling is this: if you play what I like and you don't like it, great. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

Todd_FindingMyWay
12-31-2013, 12:25 PM
3. They buy the guitar that portrays an image they want their audience to perceive them to have.


funny..my opinion of the Harley Motorcycle brand...nothing wrong with them per se but a lot of 'wannabe's' roll out on them just to 'fit in'

LSchefman
12-31-2013, 01:34 PM
funny..my opinion of the Harley Motorcycle brand...nothing wrong with them per se but a lot of 'wannabe's' roll out on them just to 'fit in'

But of course, there's a significant value judgment implied in the word 'wannabe.' Ask any Harley owner if he bought the bike just to 'fit in' and you'll get a zillion other reasons why they bought the bike. A reasonable person could hardly expect otherwise.

Though even if it's as you say, there's nothing inherently right or wrong with wanting to project a certain image, regardless of one's reasons for doing so.

Generalizations are kind of delusional anyway, they're in your head, and not necessarily the head of the person you're commenting on. They say more about you than they do about the person whose head you're putting yourself into when making a guess about their motivation for doing something.

I'm a full time professional making my living at music, and I play a certain brand of guitar.

If you're not a full time pro, should I dismiss you as a 'wannabe' if you play the same brand of guitar? You might have a lot of reasons you play that brand having nothing to do with trying to appear to be something you're not, i.e., a professional musician. Although maybe simply "looking professional" is something that you use in a good way. So you see, there's more to this than meets the eye.

Frankly, nearly everyone on the planet wants to project an image, and that's often a part of picking stuff, whether or not we admit it.

John
12-31-2013, 03:46 PM
Of the people I have encountered that shunned PRS guitars- a good chunk of them expect it to be exactly a Les Paul, when it's a different beast with its very own identity.

rugerpc
12-31-2013, 03:51 PM
What Les is on about and the reason threads like this are very interesting, is called 'validation.' Specifically, external validation. It's in our social DNA, the part that makes it easier for us to live together instead of trying to be solitary, self sustaining mountain men, totally off the grid with no other human contact.

We want people to like the things we like (and hate the things we hate). We feel better when someone says "you made the right choice." It may be the heard mentality, but that mentality fed the tribe.

Stepping away from external validation is one of the hardest things we can do socially and emotionally.

So, it can be grueling and even impossible for some to swim against the stream or think outside of the box. Acceptance can be a stronger pull than actually getting what you, as an individual, really want. (Of course, acceptance is the thing a lot of people actually want, more than anything else.)

We are just not wired to be the first adopter or early adopters. It takes a conscious effort to even just try new things. The familiar is safe.

Look at the drama that unfolded right here with the launch of the S2 line. Immediately, by just reading the specs they were pronounced by not a few as inferior. That pronouncement came before anyone here had seen, played or even smelt one.

I value the opinion of someone who has trod the path before me, but we really should at least look at the path before discarding it or running blindly down the lane. It is a struggle, but I'm personally determined to wander out of the safe zone and try new things and make up my own mind.

It is true that other people can limit us and there is nothing we can do about it. But the personal freedom and satisfaction that comes from sticking your toe in the waters which others have assured you are teeming with piranhas is often worth the risk.

leeasam
12-31-2013, 05:07 PM
Recently I had a conversation with a guy about half my age and he said PRSi are overpriced. I asked him what he played and he said a Gibson Les Paul Studio. I thought to myself I wouldn't own a Les Paul Studio if someone gave it to me. I've played lots of Les Pauls and Gibson's in general and owned two Gibson's but, quickly got rid of them because they wouldn't stay in tune and didn't sound good. My first PRS was a Swamp Ash Special which sadly I sold but then later purchased a pre-lawsuit singlecut which just blows me away everytime I play it. PRSi just have a singing quality that no other guitar has. For me, it's about the tone first but, a huge bonus are the looks and quality. I still like Fender strats and have been through many of them but, they just bore me to death and I'm wanting a 305 and an NF3.

I myself had an 02 LP Standard and a 2010 LP studio( which was actually better than the standard) I had a PRS SE singlecut that literally blew them both away for playability - quality- and sound. Everyone in the Gibson camps always say ya PRS are nice but spendy. I tell them compared to WHAT? To get a Gibson in the same quality as standard production USA PRS you need to go custom shop and they cost way more than the PRS then. The Gibson production models are so hit and miss with quality is pitiful. Oh ya the 02 standard I dumped as it had a twist in neck that. I bought an ESP EC400 that killed that LP. Actually the best Gibson I owned was an Explorer. Had the hot ceramic pick ups. Even in neck pick up it sounded clear and crisp not muddy as crap like the LP.
I now own a P22 and it is the best guitar I have ever owned. One thing I like about PRS ( even the SE I owned) was the clarity of the pick ups.
The LP Standard I had sounded like crap in the neck as it was just muddy and dull. I HEAR NOTES!!! with the PRS.

sergiodeblanc
12-31-2013, 05:38 PM
Frankly, nearly everyone on the planet wants to project an image, and that's often a part of picking stuff, whether or not we admit it.

I admit it.

leeasam
12-31-2013, 08:37 PM
Frankly, nearly everyone on the planet wants to project an image, and that's often a part of picking stuff, whether or not we admit it.

one reason I like to be seen with PRS. I am drawn to the best not the "in" crowd image. One reason I don`t like Harley`s. I like something that handles well-- fast- reliable, I want to be associated with quality and the best. that is MY image! ;)

alantig
01-01-2014, 12:50 AM
PRS has faced what all modern (or modern-ish) guitar companies have faced - and PRSh has said something similar in the past - in that they’ve come along after the die was cast. Les Pauls and Strats are seen as THE classic rock instruments. Why? Because they were around at the beginning. Sure, there have been other instruments sprinkled in here and there, but when you see pictures or videos of the guys from the 60s and 70s - the legends - they’re likely holding one of those two.


PRSh has said one of his biggest problems selling guitars is that Jimi Hendrix is dead - he can’t put a PRS in his hands. Stevie Ray Vaughan is dead - he can’t put a PRS in his hands.


And this isn’t unique to PRS - all the newer companies face the same battle, and very few find iconic players who become well-known enough to achieve anything like the status of a Clapton, Beck, Page, etc. Vai and Satriani for Ibanez, Dime for Dean, Rhoads for Jackson are about it. Well, Eddie for whoever has an extra $20 this week!


What I find amusing are some of the disparaging remarks we hear - “PRS guitars are all looks, no tone” or “You’re playing with your eyes, not your ears” and crap like that. Then those guys will usually say “You need a Les Paul to play this song correctly.” Never mind that this new Les Paul may not have the tone that the one on the record did - that guy had an LP, so that’s the only guitar that will ever be “right”. Then again, these are also some of the same guys who have no clue that Page played a Tele on LZ1.


It’s funny how many guys say, “I just want to express myself on the instrument” followed by “I want to get (name your favorite guitarist here)’s sound, so I need a Les Paul/Strat and a Marshall/Deluxe Reverb/Dumble...” Guys say “PRS doesn’t sound like a Les Paul or a Strat...” Well, no - and it shouldn’t. It should just sound good. I can play a PRS, then pick up a Les Paul or a Strat and make those sound equally bad. The main thing is, I get inspired when I pick up a PRS. That’s what it’s all about.


I keep going back to something David Grissom said when demoing a DGT. He played the single-coil mode for a bit, then said, “Sounds pretty good. Does it sound just like a Strat? Not quite, but it’s close enough for me.” Who am I to argue with David Grissom???

Herr Squid
01-01-2014, 02:59 AM
In the '80s, PRS built some new guitars that sounded effin' great with Boogies.

In the '00s, they made guitars that sounded effin' great with Mesa Rectifiers and high-gain Marshalls.

In 2008, they cracked the code and came up with pickups that sounded effin' great with Plexi Marshalls and similar amps.

Many players and onlookers have failed to notice this because they're not paying attention or haven't tried 'em recently.

But as some here have noted, an increasing number of country players are sporting PRS.

If PRS finishes the job and makes people believe their guitars sound effin' great with Fender amps, they win!

Then it's just a matter of time until the sheeple figure it out! Hopefully that's a couple of years rather than a couple of decades! :D

FennRx
01-01-2014, 08:03 AM
Since i'm here with a bunch of PRS "believers" LOL, I might as well ask if any of you have noticed the same thing in people that I have. They see and or play my guitars and say they LOVE them, then they turn around and buy a gibson or fender? I am the only one of all the freinds I have that plays PRS's. I know they're expensive, but any guitar of this caliber is expensive. I bought both of mine used and saved a big chunk of change, so I dont know if price is really the factor. People i know just seem to be reluctant to even consider PRS and I dont understand it?

Part of it is the fact that PRS doesn't really have a historically, distinctive tone in terms of 60s and 70s blues and rock. That isn't PRS's fault; the company is somewhat handicapped by Fender and Gibson being in existence long before he opened shop as well as the fact PRS came along after rock's formative years.. But I can't listen to a song and say "That is a PRS!" unless I know the artist uses one. But if I hear "Yellow Ledbetter" I know that's a Fender Stratocaster (or clone). If I hear SIBLY, I know the growl of a Les Paul.

Of course there is gray area- a strat might not always sound like a strat depending on amp, effects, pickups, etc. Most players I know will buy a Strat and/or tele and a LP to "cover all the bases".

Resale market plays a role a well. PRS isn't a big seller here based on CL. The same PRSi have been posted for months- and I don't think the asking prices are outrageous either. The market here is small- even for Gibson and Fender. The big box stores stock mostly lower end stuff- MIM Fenders and Studio LPs. The handful of Historic LPs often hang on the wall for 1 to 2 years before being bought or sent to another store.

$0.02 from a guy who hasn't had enough coffee this morning. :)

11top
01-01-2014, 08:27 AM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/11top/Lemmings20Fortean20Times.jpg (http://s31.photobucket.com/user/11top/media/Lemmings20Fortean20Times.jpg.html)

Influenced by others.

rugerpc
01-01-2014, 10:12 AM
I can play a PRS, then pick up a Les Paul or a Strat and make those sound equally bad. The main thing is, I get inspired when I pick up a PRS. That’s what it’s all about.

this


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/11top/Lemmings20Fortean20Times.jpg (http://s31.photobucket.com/user/11top/media/Lemmings20Fortean20Times.jpg.html)

Influenced by others.

and this

sleary
01-01-2014, 12:23 PM
I had 3 les Paul's in the course of my many years of playing. I always wanted a prs ,even in the 80's when Paul just started putting ads in to guitar player magazines. I actually didn't buy my first prs until 2013 which was a prs se 24 , I got hooked really fast. Bought a ce22 a month later and then finally pulled the trigger on a dgt.

Since then I've gotten rid of the ce22 but my dgt is my number one. Second is my ibanez and third is my esp.

I think a lot has come down to who has an open mind and who wants more for their money. Sure lps are nice guitars but in all out honesty, they are a very traditional instrument. I love going with a guitar maker that thinks outside the box.

JHeavey17
01-01-2014, 02:58 PM
For me I picked up a PRS SE singlecut and the moment i picked it up it felt great. The second i plugged it in and strummed it, it sounded awesome. So I played 8 others for about 3 hours. Therefore I will now be purchasing my first PRS in early February and I couldn't more excited.

alantig
01-01-2014, 10:20 PM
For me I picked up a PRS SE singlecut and the moment i picked it up it felt great. The second i plugged it in and strummed it, it sounded awesome. So I played 8 others for about 3 hours. Therefore I will now be purchasing my first PRS in early February and I couldn't more excited.

Yeah? Wait until July when you're buying your 12th!!!

You're in for a fun ride - especially if you stick around here.

hudman
01-01-2014, 10:55 PM
Since i'm here with a bunch of PRS "believers" LOL, I might as well ask if any of you have noticed the same thing in people that I have. They see and or play my guitars and say they LOVE them, then they turn around and buy a gibson or fender? I am the only one of all the freinds I have that plays PRS's. I know they're expensive, but any guitar of this caliber is expensive. I bought both of mine used and saved a big chunk of change, so I dont know if price is really the factor. People i know just seem to be reluctant to even consider PRS and I dont understand it?

I started playing guitar in 1985. I bought my first PRS last month. I went with the Santana SE in yellow. I avoided PRS guitars in the past due to the high price of the US models. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they aren't worth the money. They are high quality guitars, worth every penny. I feel the same way about Gibson Les Paul guitars. They are great but I am not willing to spend $2000 + for an electric guitar.

With that said, I went with the SE after playing one. I was impressed. I am glad I bought it.

Nice forum.

jfine
01-03-2014, 06:04 AM
I've been aware of PRS guitars since they hit the market in the mid-'80's. Supposedly, Paul was going for a guitar that would appeal to both Fender and Gibson players, and that sounded like something I could use, so I tried one at the first opportunity. My take on it was that they were beautiful, well-made, but tonally not quite what I was after--I'm primarily a Tele player, and if I can't get a good single-coil bridge-pickup sound from a guitar, I can't really use it. I was a Gibson player back in the late '60's and early '70's, but started playing Teles and Strats in the mid '70's and never looked back, although I do still enjoy my Gibson--I still have an SG along with all the single-coil guitars.
It seemed like they were getting closer with the 513, but it still wasn't quite right. Then, on a recommendation from Paul himself, I tried a DC3--almost bought it; it's just as well that I didn't have the money at the time, as I wound up later with a Brent Mason. I've always felt that PRS's were excellent guitars, just not for me, until they came up with these single-coil bolt-on models. Oh--the 305's great too, but the Brent Mason does it for me.

HANGAR18
01-03-2014, 09:07 AM
I've been aware of PRS guitars since they hit the market in the mid-'80's...

You've got me thinking now. I feel like I've known of PRS guitars forever, but in reality, I can't specifically remember a time before 2003 where I was aware of their existence. The first artist I heard (in a video recorded dialog) recommend PRS guitars was Ted Nugent. (I should make a thread out of this do I don't get acused of hijacking the thread.) Later, as a big fan of the pre-bubblegum era of Nickelback, I became hyper aware of the different PRS guitars that Chad played. (...Continued in new thread.)