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rugerpc
02-14-2013, 04:31 PM
I have a Demotivator poster :

http://demotivators.despair.com/demotivational/cluelessnessdemotivator.jpg

But I'm not going to let that stop me, and neither should you.

Do you have a question that you have often wondered about and felt that you might get frowned upon just for asking? Well, this is the thread.

By posting in this thread, you agree not to belittle or denigrate a fellow member or their dumb question. It's ok to kid - but serious answers are actually wanted at some point.

I'll start:

I'm new to guitar. I can make it squeak out a few consecutive notes and even sometimes tease out a recognizable melody. My question is this: Do you really need 24 frets instead of 22 - how often are you right up there in the 24-sphere on any string but the high E?

Mikegarveyblues
02-14-2013, 04:48 PM
In a word... No.

Plenty of great guitarists got by with 21 fret Strats and Tele's and 22 fret Gibsons. It's rare that you really, really need those two extra frets. A good example would be when Gilmour used a custom guitar on the third section of the solo from Money. He had a sound in his head and didn't want to compromise so he used a 24 fretter. Same with Gary Moore on The Prophet. Only time it's an issue is if you want to do a bend on the 23rd or 24th fret. Otherwise, if you wan to play that really high e note you can bend to it. Useful to have one but it's not essential.

Even on a 21 fretter there are certain areas that see very little action such as on the low E past, say, the 15th. There are exceptions.

sergiodeblanc
02-14-2013, 05:33 PM
I rarely use the extra notes, but I like the sense of symmetry 24 frets gives my mind when I'm looking at the fretboard. When I was starting out I looked at the fretboard a LOT, and something about being able to see the two octaves of frets helped me memorize scales and modes. Now my preference for 24 freters comes down to comfort, and where the bridge and neck are in relation to my playing posture.

rugerpc
02-14-2013, 05:33 PM
Mike and Serg - You are both Princes! Thanks for thoughtful answers!

OK - someone else's turn. Ask your 'Duh' question...

JMintzer
02-15-2013, 08:48 AM
One more answer...

There's no money above the 5th fret...


Jamie

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
02-15-2013, 09:31 AM
One more answer...

There's no money above the 5th fret...


Jamie
That only applies to bass players. :D

LSchefman
02-15-2013, 09:38 AM
One more answer...

There's no money above the 5th fret...


Jamie

Haha! But actually there is... ;)

docbennett
02-15-2013, 09:39 AM
I'm never afraid to go forward with a "D'uh" question...you guys have already formed your opinions about me :D , so here goes....

I recently read a long review of a new, hi-end acoustic guitar that the reviewer was very positive about. However, towards the conclusion of the review he went on and on and on about how (and I paraphrase) "although the guitar sounds great now, he won't be alive to hear it really open up in about 75 years".

I thought that that comment undermined all the other stuff he spouted.

So...have you people really experienced a vintage guitar "opening up"? Hey...I'm not talking about Stradivari, or even pre-war Martins....unless you heard them new, you can't tell the difference now. But in any event....how much does a guitar "open up" over time...and how much will tone improve....a lot? a little? Makes no difference at all??? :dontknow:

Your thoughts and experiences appreciated. Not looking to dispel truth...always looking to dispel myths.

Roddie
02-15-2013, 10:17 AM
What if we are satisfied with the tone now and as the guitar opens up and the tone changes we become disenchanted.

Mikegarveyblues
02-15-2013, 11:17 AM
The problem with his statement is that... Well, it's nonesense!

Lets say he did live to a grand old age, he wouldn't be able to (reliably) tell the difference. If he kept the guitar the changes would be so slow he'd adapt to them thus never really perceiving a difference. If he got hold of the guitar many years laster he wouldn't be able to accurately recall the sound he first heard.

I'm not convinced that a guitar will necessarily sound better just because it's older. Different? Quite possibly. But better? Highly subjective.

The term 'open up' is such a loose one... Can it be guaranteed. It's almost like it's a given. It will open up and it will sound better. Not sure I buy that.

Albrecht Smuten
02-18-2013, 03:12 AM
The problem with his statement is that... Well, it's nonesense!

Lets say he did live to a grand old age, he wouldn't be able to (reliably) tell the difference. If he kept the guitar the changes would be so slow he'd adapt to them thus never really perceiving a difference. If he got hold of the guitar many years laster he wouldn't be able to accurately recall the sound he first heard.

I'm not convinced that a guitar will necessarily sound better just because it's older. Different? Quite possibly. But better? Highly subjective.

The term 'open up' is such a loose one... Can it be guaranteed. It's almost like it's a given. It will open up and it will sound better. Not sure I buy that.

You get old - start having hearing issues - sound of the guitar magically improves ;)

sergiodeblanc
02-18-2013, 04:04 AM
How much do covers really affect the tone of pickups? I have my own opinions but I would like to hear from you guys.

LSchefman
02-18-2013, 07:53 AM
So...have you people really experienced a vintage guitar "opening up"? Hey...I'm not talking about Stradivari, or even pre-war Martins....unless you heard them new, you can't tell the difference now. But in any event....how much does a guitar "open up" over time...and how much will tone improve....a lot? a little? Makes no difference at all??? :dontknow:

Your thoughts and experiences appreciated. Not looking to dispel truth...always looking to dispel myths.

I've experienced new acoustic guitars sounding noticeably different after a period of use. Whether it's the finish, the glues and other solvents and adhesives curing more, or the top vibrating and loosening a tiny amount the way a speaker does, I can't say. It's also undoubtedly true that the more one plays a guitar, the more attuned to its nuances the player is, so that has to be a factor (i.e., the player adjusts to the instrument). But I do find that these factors combine and the guitar sounds a little less "tight" after a while.

I've also played vintage instruments that surely must have gotten worse over time. A few years ago, a friend handed me a very costly vintage D'Aquisto he was very excited about. I thought it sounded pretty bad. I've also played vintage Martins and Gibsons that went "thud" instead of rang out. And I've played new guitars out of the box that sounded great.

So it's gotta depend on the individual instrument. With solid body guitars, it's harder to tell; I've played vintage ones that sounded spectacular, and some that were meh.

For an education on this stuff, visit Gruhn in Nashville, and play some of their vintage instruments. There's such a variation in how similar ones age that I don't think it's easy to generalize. Some get better, some go sour.

There was a program with James Taylor a while ago where he took the interviewer into his guitar storage room, where he keeps all of his old, famous guitars. He said that he prefers to retire the older ones after a while because he believes that they lose something that the new ones have. So there's an opposite point of view!

During the program, he opened a case and took out the "Sweet Baby James" guitar, and played a few bars, and to me, it sounded just like the record. Really good. Magic, in fact. But he's the one playing it. So who knows?

Albrecht Smuten
02-20-2013, 04:35 AM
I have a stupid question: What exactly is wrong with 24 frets? There were many discussions here, whether 22 or 24... is there a real reason to prefer 22 (like sound or better intonation or something)? I mean... the more the better, right? Like with the strings, right? ;)

JustRob
02-20-2013, 05:26 AM
I have a stupid question: What exactly is wrong with 24 frets? There were many discussions here, whether 22 or 24... is there a real reason to prefer 22 (like sound or better intonation or something)? I mean... the more the better, right? Like with the strings, right? ;)
Of course more is better! That's why you want your amp to go to 11. It's "one" louder. :biggrin:
Being vertically challenged, i thought the 24 would be less comfortable to me than the 22, but it's not. I just seem to like where my hands tend to fall on the 24. Can't really figure out why. :dontknow:

Albrecht Smuten
02-20-2013, 05:38 AM
Of course more is better! That's why you want your amp to go to 11. It's "one" louder. :biggrin:
Being vertically challenged, i thought the 24 would be less comfortable to me than the 22, but it's not. I just seem to like where my hands tend to fall on the 24. Can't really figure out why. :dontknow:

Thanks, btw you've just invented a killer trick to amp marketing - make a special volume knob and claim "The only amp in the world that goes up to 11" :)
I'll sell it to Paul and we'll share the revenue, ok? :D

JustRob
02-20-2013, 06:05 AM
Check out This Is Spinal Tap when you've got some time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll7rWiY5obI

Great movie.

Albrecht Smuten
02-20-2013, 06:23 AM
Check out This Is Spinal Tap when you've got some time.

Ah! Excuse my lack of education. The movie looks awesome, I'm... ahem... buying... ahem, the movie today!

JustRob
02-20-2013, 06:31 AM
Ah! Excuse my lack of education.

I realize it's ancient history for you. Just have to take this over to the "you know you're old when..." Thread. :vroam:

Albrecht Smuten
02-20-2013, 06:45 AM
I realize it's ancient history for you. Just have to take this over to the "you know you're old when..." Thread. :vroam:

You know, the movie is as old as I am :D

RedGuitars
02-20-2013, 06:47 AM
I don't know if it's true or not, but there are stories about Eric Johnson saying the battery brand in his stomp tuner impacts tone... I think that's taking the whole tone chain thing just a little too far. But it may just be internet lore anyway, so...

docbennett
02-20-2013, 07:12 AM
Thanks, btw you've just invented a killer trick to amp marketing - make a special volume knob and claim "The only amp in the world that goes up to 11" :)
I'll sell it to Paul and we'll share the revenue, ok? :D

Al...I sold my Soldano SLO 100 last year. Yes....the numbers did go up to "11". And I was never able to get it above "4" in my basement without shaking the foundation. I played it through a full stack of 2 4X12's that were the speakers "Heart" used on tour in the 80's The amp was made by Mike Soldano as an exact copy of Howard Leese's Soldano SLO #2. It was a very loud amp, to say the least. Traded it, and the speaker stack for an ME-1.

Albrecht Smuten
02-20-2013, 07:23 AM
Al...I sold my Soldano SLO 100 last year. Yes....the numbers did go up to "11". And I was never able to get it above "4" in my basement without shaking the foundation. I played it through a full stack of 2 4X12's that were the speakers "Heart" used on tour in the 80's The amp was made by Mike Soldano as an exact copy of Howard Leese's Soldano SLO #2. It was a very loud amp, to say the least. Traded it, and the speaker stack for an ME-1.

ALRIGHT ALRIGHT! So I didn't know certain amps can go up to 11! What will you come up with next? Guitars with two necks? :D

Mikegarveyblues
02-20-2013, 07:32 AM
I don't know if it's true or not, but there are stories about Eric Johnson saying the battery brand in his stomp tuner impacts tone... I think that's taking the whole tone chain thing just a little too far. But it may just be internet lore anyway, so...

I think he's distanced himself from comments that he could tell one battery from another - or words to that effect (Pun Alert!).

He talks about how a battery (And it's amount of charge) affects his fuzz tone though - and there may be some truth to that.

docbennett
02-20-2013, 07:45 AM
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT! So I didn't know certain amps can go up to 11! What will you come up with next? Guitars with two necks? :D

Al...now you're being downright silly. Never heard of such a thing.


Hi Rick.....How's it goin'? :flute:

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/admin/Rick_Nielsen.jpg

LSchefman
02-20-2013, 10:25 AM
I think he's distanced himself from comments that he could tell one battery from another - or words to that effect (Pun Alert!).

He talks about how a battery (And it's amount of charge) affects his fuzz tone though - and there may be some truth to that.

Yeah, there is some truth to it. I had a power supply on my former pedalboard that allowed me to vary the voltage and sag on one of the outputs, and it made a small difference on both the Fulldrive II I had at the time, but strangely enough, it made a very big difference on my wahs (a Teese Picture Wah and a Fulltone Clyde Deluxe at the time). So I used this circuit to power my wah.

To prevent the issue of stopping playing, adjusting the controls, and then resuming play with a pause in between, which plays tricks on your memory of a given sound, I had my son adjust the voltage controls while I played until I reached the sound I liked. It's a good way to do it, because you're hearing the differences as the control is adjusted.

What was the difference on the wahs, you ask? It seemed to sweeten them up and make them less spiky.

Egads
02-20-2013, 03:13 PM
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT! So I didn't know certain amps can go up to 11! What will you come up with next? Guitars with two necks? :D

Next thing you know, there will be guitars with SEVEN strings!

And amp capos!

Albrecht Smuten
02-21-2013, 04:02 AM
Al...now you're being downright silly. Never heard of such a thing.


Next thing you know, there will be guitars with SEVEN strings!

And amp capos!

Guys, I was searching for a way to "out-joke" you, eventually digging up the "darkest secret in the history of rock'n'roll":

http://a2.images4.thomann.de/pics/prod/199442.jpg

And it's REAL! No need for amp capo ever again, for I'm gonna be in possession of THE PICK OF DESTINY:

http://www.thomann.de/gr/tenacious_d_the_pick_of_destiny_at_necklet.htm

Egads
02-21-2013, 10:16 PM
http://a2.images4.thomann.de/pics/prod/199442.jpg

:adore:

Goldtop
02-22-2013, 03:22 AM
Hi Rick.....How's it goin'? :flute:

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/admin/Rick_Nielsen.jpg

Too cool. I'm a H-U-G-E Rick and CT fan. Thanks for posting this.

Lloyd

docbennett
02-22-2013, 08:42 AM
Too cool. I'm a H-U-G-E Rick and CT fan. Thanks for posting this.

Lloyd

I may be dating myself with this one, but everytime I see a picture of Rick Nielson from CT....I am reminded of his doppelganger....IMO, he is the spitting image (so long as he is not wearing a beard) of Huntz Hall (Satch) from the old "Bowery Boys" movies. I keep waiting for Leo Gorcey to show up and smack him in the head with his hat. :p