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View Full Version : Fading Pernambuco??? Same wood, or different?



docbennett
03-02-2013, 11:14 AM
Here is my 2011 PS Santana, AKA "Serenity". The neck is Pernambcco. I wasn't concerned about the "wings" of the neck fading until I read about the recent and somewhat controversial "Pernambuco vs. Pernambuco/Chaltecoco" issue.

I will show you how the wings of the heel have faded over the past two years. Not a major concern to me...unless the wings are fading due to a "different type of pernambuco" used to complete the headstock.

While some of you might think that this is a private matter between PRS customer service and myself...I think that after the recent controversy....the entire forum needs reassurance (I know I do) that the "Old, genuine Pernambuco" was not compromised by an alternate wood when completing the headstock.

Since I can't show my #3340 without including a glamor shot or two...here is "Serenity" almost 2 years later....and if anyone can comment on the fading...and if anyone representing the company would care to chime in.....are the "wings" made from the same wood that was used to make the entire neck??? If so, I am fine. If, however, a different type of wood was used to complete the headstock...then we might have an issue to resolve.

I look forward to the anticipated reassurance. BTW..."Serenity" was the very first "Jade Glow" and the PS staining team and I created this color with my goal being a "green burst". I really think they nailed it.

Full frontal nudity:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6246.jpg

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6245.jpg


Front of Headstock....Brazilian veneer, and nothing noticeable:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6247.jpg

Not to obvious from this angle:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6250.jpg

But a bit more apparent here:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6251.jpg

And here:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6252.jpg

Here is a shot of the entire neck, FWIW:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6253.jpg


Thoughts? Same wood? Different wood?

LSchefman
03-02-2013, 11:32 AM
Thoughts?

That you're just itching to create problems and issues?

Anyway, what does it matter? Do you think you're going to hear the tone suffer in any case?

First it was the acoustic case mystery, solved by my suggestion (that proved true) that the case was replaced. You've already found out you have a real pernie neck on that thing. Now you're worried about the wood scraps they use to fill out the wings on every single PRS, that in your case are sitting behind a veneer? Are you kidding? You want to start a controversy over THAT? And two years AFTER you bought the guitar?

If I were PRS, it'd be No Soup For You. LOL!! ;)


Same wood? Different wood?

If you look at the upper right part of your headstock, I'd say it seems to be the same wood. Those particular scraps simply came from lower down or higher up on the neck blank, would be my guess.

A study of the upper left of the headstock looks similar too. You're just looking at a different grain in the wood, at a different angle. Get out a piece of wood and look at it. The grains vary from place to place on the piece of wood. And when you stain it, that varies, too.

docbennett
03-02-2013, 11:43 AM
The reason I am concerned is not about acoustics. It's about finances. when you are spending a huge up-charge...and I mean HUGE up-charge for the PB....you want it to be PB and not ersatz. I am sure that the company will provide reassurance, and this is not to be controversial but to assume that for everyone who posts a question there are probably a lot of people who have the same question but would be reluctant to post. If the moderators think this should be deleted and kept private, please do so.

Shawn@PRS
03-02-2013, 11:48 AM
You should have a spec sheet documenting the woods used to build the guitar. If you need reassurance, I'd suggest contacting your dealer who will contact Private Stock. I'm pretty sure no one from PS is a member here and they don't have the ability to chime in.

docbennett
03-02-2013, 11:49 AM
Thanks Shawn...please delete this thread. thanks very much.

Shawn@PRS
03-02-2013, 11:54 AM
It's up to you to delete

LSchefman
03-02-2013, 11:56 AM
The reason I am concerned is not about acoustics. It's about finances. when you are spending a huge up-charge...and I mean HUGE up-charge for the PB....you want it to be PB and not ersatz. I am sure that the company will provide reassurance, and this is not to be controversial but to assume that for everyone who posts a question there are probably a lot of people who have the same question but would be reluctant to post. If the moderators think this should be deleted and kept private, please do so.

Except that you obviously got PB for the neck. So that isn't an issue. You're worried about the little wing ends. Not the neck.

Do you buy things just to obsess over the minutiae of conspiracy theories or what?

I'd have refrained from commenting, honestly, but you ASKED for comments.

AaeCee
03-02-2013, 12:00 PM
FWIW, I've seen plenty of solid BRW necks on ME 1's, etc., with 'wings' that look the same way.....as though they were from a different rosewood altogether, but I've been assured by various 'powers that be' over the years that they are indeed BRW. I'm sure that's the case with your perny neck as well.

Steph
03-02-2013, 12:00 PM
BTW, awesome Santana! Love the green... and the quilt is stunning... :o

Dirty Bob
03-02-2013, 12:01 PM
Send the guitar to me! Problem solved! That is a looker doc...always liked it.

TGSCAN
03-02-2013, 12:06 PM
Its absolutely 1000% PERN.


I wanna see the BENNETT VS CHEF hot-tub BATTLE ROYALE !!

UNCLE B will bring the steaks ;-))

Dirty Bob
03-02-2013, 12:08 PM
Its absolutely 1000% PERN.


I wanna see the BENNETT VS CHEF hot-tub BATTLE ROYALE !!

UNCLE B will bring the steaks ;-))

He he he....:rofl:

docbennett
03-02-2013, 12:16 PM
I'll keep the thread...it seems to have a happy ending.

However...I've already posted this once before...I CAN'T DELETE AN OP!!

Can others?? I can delete subsequent posts, but I am unable to delete an OP. If I try to edit, the "delete" button is not there.

Les....if you buy a diamond ring, with a 2 carat center stone, and 4 baguettes of only 33 points (1/3 carat) each making up the surround of the setting. then, you find out that 1 of those baguettes is actually a CZ. No problem according to your logic, no? After all...3.0 of the total 3.33 carat weight is genuine...and no one cares about anything but the center stone anyway.

And you wrote this...

"Except that you obviously got PB for the neck. So that isn't an issue. You're worried about the little wing ends. Not the neck."

You mean that those wing ends are NOT part of the neck? I am now very confused. What are they part of, the body??

jcha008
03-02-2013, 12:16 PM
I'd say you're fine Bennett. The wings seem to have the same orange tint that all perny has. In addition, considering the chaltecoco controversy didn't start till they branded the Collection VI, I don't really think there is an issue here. Also, on many guitars where the headstock wings are glued on (not just prs) the grain tends to vary.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
03-02-2013, 01:20 PM
Kill me now.

sergiodeblanc
03-02-2013, 01:21 PM
How does Ginger let you spend tens-of-thousands of dollars on guitars when your basement still has that carpeting and paneling from the 70's?

docbennett
03-02-2013, 01:37 PM
How does Ginger let you spend tens-of-thousands of dollars on guitars when your basement still has that carpeting and paneling from the 70's?

I think you just answered your own question my friend. We still use outdoor plumbing. You should see our out-house. A "4-holer"!!

docbennett
03-02-2013, 01:42 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;55299']Kill me now.


Skip the ad. Jump to the 1' 12" mark...it will only take about 6 seconds....that's what I thought of when I read your post.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNn8JljyCSE

LSchefman
03-02-2013, 03:07 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;55299']Kill me now.

You must be looking for the Leprechaun story thread. That would be in Room 17, down the hall, third door on the right.

This is the Wood Conspiracy/Counterconspiracy Argument thread.

docbennett
03-02-2013, 03:20 PM
You must be looking for the Leprechaun story thread. That would be in Room 17, down the hall, third door on the right.

This is the Wood Conspiracy/Counterconspiracy Argument thread.

:laugh::biggrin::adore::rofl::congrats:

Well played, as they say!

LSchefman
03-02-2013, 03:36 PM
:laugh::biggrin::adore::rofl::congrats:

Well played, as they say!

Thank you!

It seems we've run out of things to argue about, and it's only 4:35 right now. Shall we knock off early, grab a beer and go listen to your collection of oyster more cowbell recordings?

docbennett
03-02-2013, 03:52 PM
Thank you!

It seems we've run out of things to argue about, and it's only 4:35 right now. Shall we knock off early, grab a beer and go listen to your collection of oyster more cowbell recordings?

Sure....it's Saturday Night. Hey.... How many people know that "Saturday Night Fever"'s title, up until maybe a month before it was released was going to be "Tribal Rites of the New Saturday Night". Catchy title....Travolta would have been doing "Welcome Back Kotter, again" on some 3rd world sit com if not for the name change.

Dirty Bob
03-02-2013, 04:46 PM
How does Ginger let you spend tens-of-thousands of dollars on guitars when your basement still has that carpeting and paneling from the 70's?


Spit my drink all over the place....thanks sergio!:congrats::girl:

s.fitzsimmons
03-02-2013, 05:10 PM
How does Ginger let you spend tens-of-thousands of dollars on guitars when your basement still has that carpeting and paneling from the 70's?

Ouch. Can't say that hasn't crossed my mind.

LSchefman
03-02-2013, 08:06 PM
"Bennett? Hi, it's Sergio. you know, your new man-cave decorator? I've seen pictures of the place, and I have some really fab ideas for you. Do you like salmon color? Because I have this marvelous salmon col...oh, no salmon? Well, it would certainly bring out the pink in that faded Bon...oh...you're selling that one...

"Let me see...how about lime? Are you into lime and greens, or do we have to stick with boring neutral colors...oh dear, I'm going to have to call you back, it's my mother on the other line.

"Mother? Oh, no...sorry Bennett, I don't know how to work this frickin' phone! I'm such a hot mess with DEVICES! Oh I hate blue, no blue. Blue is simply awful in a man cave. Yes, I'll call you back and then I'll come over to take a look at the place. Thank you...TaTa!

"Mother? I'm on the phone with this guy with really creepy carpet and...Oh, sorry again Bennett, I mean what is WITH this phone? I'm so embarrassed. Call you back."

PRSHB2
03-02-2013, 08:27 PM
Doc, please get a new camera before replacing any out dated carpet or paneling. Those find guitars deserve something other than a potato to take pics. I would very happily help you pick one out, all I need is a dollar amount. :)

docbennett
03-03-2013, 06:49 AM
I ask for wood opinions, and everyone is either an interior decorator or an editor at Modern Photography.

JMintzer
03-03-2013, 08:27 AM
And clean the spooge of the lens. There a big blur in the same place on every pic...


Jamie, being helpful...

docbennett
03-03-2013, 08:41 AM
My 2003 Kodak with the Schneider Lens...that has a big schmear on it as I look at it. Hmmm...maybe time to invest in a new camera. And a carpet.

LSchefman
03-03-2013, 09:04 AM
I ask for wood opinions, and everyone is either an interior decorator or an editor at Modern Photography.

And what about those of us who happen to be hostesses in transgender clubs? Don't we count?

guitarsong
03-03-2013, 11:22 AM
Forget the camera tripod please.

Brad737
03-03-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm no expert, and while I do agree that wood from the same blank can look remarkably different when viewed at different angles, those little wings look totally different to me. It looks like regular mahogany or korina to me, with those big, open pores.

However, I doubt Eric Johnson or Eddie Van Halen could tell a difference tone-wise.



And here:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6252.jpg

Thoughts? Same wood? Different wood?

PRSHB2
03-03-2013, 01:26 PM
I'm no expert, and while I do agree that wood from the same blank can look remarkably different when viewed at different angles, those little wings look totally different to me. It looks like regular mahogany or korina to me, with those big, open pores.

However, I doubt Eric Johnson or Eddie Van Halen could tell a difference tone-wise.
What about Tag? :)

LSchefman
03-03-2013, 01:40 PM
What about Tag? :)

Tag can identify flea species only by the tone of their farts.

docbennett
03-03-2013, 01:45 PM
All kidding aside, and in all seriousness...I am in the process of having a new amp built by a "booteek builder" that is specifically dedicated to Tag. Being built with Tag's personal input and recommendations. FWIW. Tag knows tone!!

And thanks, Tag, for the recommendations....we are going with the exact clone...no extra bells and whistles.

Brad737
03-03-2013, 01:49 PM
Tag can identify flea species only by the tone of their farts.

Now, THAT'S some great hearing. By gnat-fart tone, I can only tell if they're virgins or "experienced". :D

docbennett
03-05-2013, 06:44 AM
So, I sent the following to PRS Customer Service yesterday morning. As yet, no reply. As soon as they let me know, I will report back to "youse guys".


To: PRS Customer Service
Hi folks...this got a bit "out of hand" on the PRS forum, so I will take it straight to the "horse's mouth".

First....are the "wings" made from the same wood? Is the entire headstock made of Pernambucco?

Second..would this be a covered repair under warranty, given how the fading is so dramatic of the "wings" vs. the remainder of the headstock?

here is the thread taken from the PRS forum...has the questions, and the photos. Look forward to the official reply from PRS.

Fading Pernambuco??? Same wood, or different?


Here is my 2011 PS #3340 Santana, AKA "Serenity". The neck is Pernambcco. I wasn't concerned about the "wings" of the neck fading until I read about the recent and somewhat controversial "Pernambuco vs. Pernambuco/Chaltecoco" issue.

I will show you how the wings of the heel have faded over the past two years. Not a major concern to me...unless the wings are fading due to a "different type of pernambuco" used to complete the headstock.

While some of you might think that this is a private matter between PRS customer service and myself...I think that after the recent controversy....the entire forum needs reassurance (I know I do) that the "Old, genuine Pernambuco" was not compromised by an alternate wood when completing the headstock.

Since I can't show my #3340 without including a glamor shot or two...here is "Serenity" almost 2 years later....and if anyone can comment on the fading...and if anyone representing the company would care to chime in.....are the "wings" made from the same wood that was used to make the entire neck??? If so, I am fine. If, however, a different type of wood was used to complete the headstock...then we might have an issue to resolve.

I look forward to the anticipated reassurance. BTW..."Serenity" was the very first "Jade Glow" and the PS staining team and I created this color with my goal being a "green burst". I really think they nailed it.

Full frontal nudity:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6246.jpg

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6245.jpg


Front of Headstock....Brazilian veneer, and nothing noticeable:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6247.jpg

Not to obvious from this angle:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6250.jpg

But a bit more apparent here:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6251.jpg

And here:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6252.jpg

Here is a shot of the entire neck, FWIW:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/drugdetox/PRS%202011%20PS%203340%20serenity%20now/100_6253.jpg


Thoughts? Same wood? Different wood?

s.fitzsimmons
03-05-2013, 07:09 AM
Grant me the serenity
to accept the natural variations in wood that I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one guitar at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this guitar
as it is, not as I would have it;

Shawn@PRS
03-05-2013, 07:13 AM
Hi Bennett,

I just checked the customer service email, there isn't an email from you sitting in there. can you send it again and Matt will get back to you. And have you spoken to your dealer? The dealer can go directly to the PS sales team for more info if the letter signed by Paul isn't enough verification for you.

docbennett
03-05-2013, 07:48 AM
Shawn...I bought it from Brian Meader, when he was as Washington. He's now at Guitar Santuary, so I really want to avoid the dealer, since my relationship with Brain transcended "Washington Music Center".

I sent the email to custserv@prsguitars.com

I will send it again, right now. thanks.

PS...the spec letter does not specify what woods were used where. Since it also indicates that mahogany was used, as well as maple, it doesn't indicate that "the entire headstock is Pernambucco" so I don't think the spec sheet/COA is of any help on this one. And, as per the pictures, and several private emails I've received, there is a consensus out there that perhaps the 'wings' were made of mahogany or some other wood.

Therefore, I would be very curious to know what the "truth" is on this build. thanks. Look for the 2nd copy of the email to be in the customer serivice "inbox" by the time you read this. Also...the fact that I sent it yesterday AM and it was never received would also indicate a possible problem with the email...unless my "drugdetox" email address went into spam....which it shouldn't since we've corresponded many times previous to this.

Shawn@PRS
03-05-2013, 09:09 AM
The reason it doesn't say what the headstock is made from is because the headstock and neck are a single piece of wood. The ears are typically sourced from a section of the neck that is typically cut away in the build process. But I'll let Matt answer you directly.

PS, Brian is still a PRS dealer and still has direct contact with the PS team.

docbennett
03-06-2013, 07:05 AM
OK...to anyone who has any interest...here is the definitive answer....

"The wings are made from a rare form of balsa, designed to resonate properly with the density of the Pernambucco"


Fooled ya! Here is what i got from Customer service.....and despite the slight fade (when I first got the guitar, you could not see where the seam was...but apparantly the wood faded at a slightly different rate....no big deal to me):

Hi Bennett,

I asked Paul Miles if the ears on your guitar are in fact Pernambuco, this is his reply.

Yes absolutely. The ears come from the back center so they don't always match exactly.

Thanks,

Shawn Nuthall
Paul Reed Smith Guitars


Thanks to all who provided input, and hopefully this will resolve any other concerns others who have similiar builds may experience. And a special thanks to the customer service and PS department for resolving this minor issue to my totaly satisfaction.

Now I can wait for PS #4339 to finish being baked in the oven!

TGSCAN
03-06-2013, 07:20 AM
OK...to anyone who has any interest...here is the definitive answer....

"The wings are made from a rare form of balsa, designed to resonate properly with the density of the Pernambucco"


Fooled ya! Here is what i got from Customer service.....and despite the slight fade (when I first got the guitar, you could not see where the seam was...but apparantly the wood faded at a slightly different rate....no big deal to me):

Hi Bennett,

I asked Paul Miles if the ears on your guitar are in fact Pernambuco, this is his reply.

Yes absolutely. The ears come from the back center so they don't always match exactly.

Thanks,

Shawn Nuthall
Paul Reed Smith Guitars


Thanks to all who provided input, and hopefully this will resolve any other concerns others who have similiar builds may experience. And a special thanks to the customer service and PS department for resolving this minor issue to my totaly satisfaction.

Now I can wait for PS #4339 to finish being baked in the oven!



YAY !!!!

docbennett
03-06-2013, 07:27 AM
YAY !!!!

Brent...re #4339.....you're following up on the balsa wood for the "ears" and the "Floater Mahogany" for the body right? and don't forget the "Heel from Hell" and the "Unobtainium nut". The "untunomatic bridge" and the "sour switch" better be as spec'ed out as well!

I want to make sure this build is perfect in advance, with no problems once it is delivered! You know that this Private Stock is going to be used to advertise the new "notPRS" line for a well known Las Vegas Guitar store that exists only on-line and whose now deceased owner was of extreme Irish Ancestry!

http://blog.shaleshockmedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/phlegm-mcKleer.jpg

hippietim
03-06-2013, 07:59 AM
Except that you obviously got PB for the neck. So that isn't an issue. You're worried about the little wing ends. Not the neck.

Do you buy things just to obsess over the minutiae of conspiracy theories or what?

Les, we all get that you don't care about this sort of thing. Congratulations. I'll buy you a cookie. You can not care all you want but perhaps you can understand that someone who dropped the kind of coin it takes to buy a PS with a pernambuco neck might be concerned that the whole neck is not pernambuco given the recent debacle and the visual discrepancy.


I'd have refrained from commenting, honestly, but you ASKED for comments.

When he asked for comments it was VERY OBVIOUS that he was asking about the woods. What he wasn't asking for is your opinion on whether this should matter to him or not.

themike
03-06-2013, 08:14 AM
Les, we all get that you don't care about this sort of thing. Congratulations. I'll buy you a cookie. You can not care all you want but perhaps you can understand that someone who dropped the kind of coin it takes to buy a PS with a pernambuco neck might be concerned that the whole neck is not pernambuco given the recent debacle and the visual discrepancy.

When he asked for comments it was VERY OBVIOUS that he was asking about the woods. What he wasn't asking for is your opinion on whether this should matter to him or not.

I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.

LSchefman
03-06-2013, 09:10 AM
Les, we all get that you don't care about this sort of thing. Congratulations. I'll buy you a cookie. You can not care all you want but perhaps you can understand that someone who dropped the kind of coin it takes to buy a PS with a pernambuco neck might be concerned that the whole neck is not pernambuco given the recent debacle and the visual discrepancy.



When he asked for comments it was VERY OBVIOUS that he was asking about the woods. What he wasn't asking for is your opinion on whether this should matter to him or not.

Tim, I'll take the cookie.

First, Bennett and I are good friends, and he knows that I'm just giving him a hard time the way friends tease each other in real life. What doesn't come across on the internet is tone of voice, etc. Bennett is a great guy and he knows I like him. He puts up with me.

As to my feelings about the recent debacle, that is well known and I am aware that you and others who hang here and on VR are annoyed with me. I can live with that. My opinions don't come as the result of trying to win a popularity contest. They are what they are.

Finally, I did respond about the woods by suggesting very early in this thread that this particular stuff on the ears of the headstock simply came from a different part of the pernie lumber. Here is my response, copied and pasted from my VERY FIRST post on this thread:

"If you look at the upper right part of your headstock, I'd say it seems to be the same wood. Those particular scraps simply came from lower down or higher up on the neck blank, would be my guess."

AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. PRS has now confirmed it.

Sometimes the most obvious, logical answer is the correct one.

Since the most logical answer was the FIRST one I gave on this thread, and since that answer proved to be FACT, and not a bunch of uneducated guesses about some kind of headstock ears conspiracy, perhaps I earned that cookie. :)

By the way, the tin foil hat looks nice on you.

docbennett
03-06-2013, 09:52 AM
I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.

First of all, to be clear...that wasn't me in the "impact thread"...I may have commented..but I didn't initiate anything. As a matter of fact, that was the thread that motivated me to post this one.

As far as the post I am quoting...First...."Thanks Mike" for the initial complement...and let me try to explain my "ulterior" motivations. As Tim has said above...the reason for the forum post (which I had misgivings about shortly after, but which I could not delete since I am unable to delete an OP as I have conveyed to the moderators previously) was to try to bring this issue up and see if any others had my concerns or had a similar experience. I quickly "re-thought" my approach, and in retrospect, the pros of adding to forum knowledge was outweighed by the cons of washing dirty laundry in public.

However, in the final analysis....I felt "OK" with the public disclosure since I felt it was important to the forum especially based on the prior controversy surrounding the wood used and advertised in some of the builds.

Overall, (and if you have followed my posts, you know this about me) even if it turned out that the "ears" were made of some crappy substitute...I am certain that we would have been able to work out a mutually acceptable resolution between PRS the company, and myself.

In the final analysis, the positive resolution is another way of demonstrating that PRS is on top of these type of issues and is intereted in ensuring customer satisfaction. After all...I would NOT have ordered another PS if I wasn't comfortable with the whole process after all is said and done.

I am not an intentional gadfly. I try to be as objective as possible, but I will NOT be a corporate apologist...when I see something wrong...I will disclose it...and I am sure that many people find my comments and views to be totally obnoxious. But, that is why the forum allows you to "ignore" those people that you don't want to interact with. I am hopefull that this thread not only provided some decent information to the "rank and file" but I also tried to interject some of my lame attempts at humor to take some of the "seriousness" out of the whole thread.

If I offended anyone, I apologize. For that matter, if anyone learned anything of significance, that makes the whole thing worthwhile.

rugerpc
03-06-2013, 09:58 AM
I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.

I'm with you Mike. I didn't post in the impact damage thread or the other perny thread at all and not in this one until now. When people have a question that only the company can answer, I just don't see why they ask people who are not involved before they have exhausted all their options with the company first.

If someone has an issue and it comes to a dead end or is unresolved with no further action forthcoming from the company, or it is resolved satisfactorly, then perhaps it is time post about it. Threads about problems, both resolved and unresolved, do educate us. But to hold the company's feet to the fire publicly while a matter is still unresolved and could go either way is just not the way to go.

This is just my opinion, but I think these things should be taken up privately. A thread about the final outcome would the hinge on how happy a person is or how disappointed.

You're mileage may vary. Shake before using. Not for the other use.

themike
03-06-2013, 10:08 AM
First of all, to be clear...that wasn't me in the "impact thread"...I may have commented..but I didn't initiate anything. As a matter of fact, that was the thread that motivated me to post this one.

As far as the post I am quoting...First...."Thanks Mike" for the initial complement...and let me try to explain my "ulterior" motivations. As Tim has said above...the reason for the forum post (which I had misgivings about shortly after, but which I could not delete since I am unable to delete an OP as I have conveyed to the moderators previously) was to try to bring this issue up and see if any others had my concerns or had a similar experience. I quickly "re-thought" my approach, and in retrospect, the pros of adding to forum knowledge was outweighed by the cons of washing dirty laundry in public.

However, in the final analysis....I felt "OK" with the public disclosure since I felt it was important to the forum especially based on the prior controversy surrounding the wood used and advertised in some of the builds.

Overall, (and if you have followed my posts, you know this about me) even if it turned out that the "ears" were made of some crappy substitute...I am certain that we would have been able to work out a mutually acceptable resolution between PRS the company, and myself.

In the final analysis, the positive resolution is another way of demonstrating that PRS is on top of these type of issues and is intereted in ensuring customer satisfaction. After all...I would NOT have ordered another PS if I wasn't comfortable with the whole process after all is said and done.

I am not an intentional gadfly. I try to be as objective as possible, but I will NOT be a corporate apologist...when I see something wrong...I will disclose it...and I am sure that many people find my comments and views to be totally obnoxious. But, that is why the forum allows you to "ignore" those people that you don't want to interact with. I am hopefull that this thread not only provided some decent information to the "rank and file" but I also tried to interject some of my lame attempts at humor to take some of the "seriousness" out of the whole thread.

If I offended anyone, I apologize. For that matter, if anyone learned anything of significance, that makes the whole thing worthwhile.

Oh I understand. I was simply replying to Tim's response. Everyone here has an opinion, sometimes vastly different and that's what makes this place great. Just because someone would have handled it differently doesn't mean you did it wrong - you just did it your way. As always I enjoy reading about your builds, be it PS or HML's so I hope you didn't take offense to it.

Baimun
03-06-2013, 10:33 AM
How does Ginger let you spend tens-of-thousands of dollars on guitars when your basement still has that carpeting and paneling from the 70's?

My mancave is the same way.... Everytime I think "I should buy some drywall and replace the panelling" then I end up buying new gear instead. I just bought one of those free standing lighting trusses the other day. :o

docbennett
03-06-2013, 10:37 AM
Actually, in reading Bill's (Ruger) reply above, I have to back-track and say that it was clearly inappropriate for me to post this prior to asking the company privately for resolution.

Outcome....the Company comes out shining, and I look like a stoopid curmudgeon with nothing better to do than rant about the kids on my lawn.

Hopefully, I will show some restraint in the future. I was obviously upset about an issue that turned out to be a non-factor. I guess the original post should have been along the lines of "do you think this fade in any way detracts from the overall quality of the build".

don't answer that.

I'm OK now....really I am....thanks for all the support, and apologies to all those who basically said "W(hy)TF is he posting this on a public forum?".

rugerpc
03-06-2013, 11:22 AM
I'm not berating you, Bennett, nor the OP in the other two threads. It's just a cart before the horse thing for me. I see the usefulness of the threads in question, I just think they should be posted after the fact.

No company is perfect. Not even PRS. Issues do, and will continue to, come up. The resolutions shouldn't be secret, the buying community deserves to know one way or the other so they can make informed decisions about where we spend our increasingly fewer dollars.

Perhaps there is a middle ground. Say someone has a question about a guitar and they don't know if it has been asked before or if it is normal or a real problem. Posting a pic and asking if there is something that needs attention gives the OP information on how to proceed.

The advice may be, "It's normal." "That looks like a warranty thing." "Have the seller/dealer fix it." "Send it to PTC." "Email PRS Customer Service." "Mine did that, I did this..." Or something along those lines.

But once a direction is chosen, maybe it would be better to post results after the dust has cleared than for the public to get a blow by blow of the reckoning process. That could save both the company and/or the OP some face.

Think of it this way, if you are in a negotiation or dispute and in the court of public opinion, it is time to ask for a change in venue.

hippietim
03-06-2013, 12:26 PM
I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.

I don't disagree with you. All of that is orothogonal to the point I was making. I simply don't understand why Les has to hammer home the point all the time that we shouldn't care about this sort of thing.

hippietim
03-06-2013, 12:39 PM
Tim, I'll take the cookie.

Duck.


First, Bennett and I are good friends, and he knows that I'm just giving him a hard time the way friends tease each other in real life. What doesn't come across on the internet is tone of voice, etc. Bennett is a great guy and he knows I like him. He puts up with me.

Another cookie.


As to my feelings about the recent debacle, that is well known and I am aware that you and others who hang here and on VR are annoyed with me. I can live with that. My opinions don't come as the result of trying to win a popularity contest. They are what they are.

I'm not annoyed at you for your opinion. It's when you get dismissive of the concerns of others. You don't care about <insert recent debacle topic here> ? Fine. Obviously some others do. But you feel the need to tell us over and over how we shouldn't care about those things - basically because you don't think they matter. When someone drops a few thousand dollars on a guitar (or a LOT more for a private stock), it is not unreasonable for people to know what they're getting and expect it to be as it was represented.


Finally, I did respond about the woods by suggesting very early in this thread that this particular stuff on the ears of the headstock simply came from a different part of the pernie lumber. Here is my response, copied and pasted from my VERY FIRST post on this thread:

"If you look at the upper right part of your headstock, I'd say it seems to be the same wood. Those particular scraps simply came from lower down or higher up on the neck blank, would be my guess."

Well your first few remarks in the thread were anything but relevant. You've added much more snark and dismissive commentary to this and other threads like this than anything else.


AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. PRS has now confirmed it.

Sometimes the most obvious, logical answer is the correct one.

Since the most logical answer was the FIRST one I gave on this thread, and since that answer proved to be FACT, and not a bunch of uneducated guesses about some kind of headstock ears conspiracy, perhaps I earned that cookie. :)

You've earned a bucket of tossed cookies. ;)


By the way, the tin foil hat looks nice on you.

Not me Les. I'm not much for conspiracies.

PRSHB2
03-06-2013, 01:13 PM
:top:

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
03-06-2013, 01:18 PM
Are cookies the new pie?

rugerpc
03-06-2013, 01:25 PM
-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ;56357']Are cookies the new pie?

Who says you can't have the best of everything all at once?

nestle-toll-house-chocolate-chip-cookie-pie/ (http://janieskitchen.com/2013/01/07/nestle-toll-house-chocolate-chip-cookie-pie/)

http://janieskitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/CookiePie3.jpg

TGSCAN
03-06-2013, 01:25 PM
http://youtu.be/dPKG1-3LXBs

PRSHB2
03-06-2013, 01:32 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2155/2420100292_d94ed6d8e0.jpg

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
03-06-2013, 01:39 PM
The sacred rule of Pie (http://prsguitars.com/forum/showthread.php?1044-The-PRS-Lexicon&highlight=lexicon) has been invoked.

PRSHB2
03-06-2013, 02:00 PM
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=fjLR_RIumKYkRM&tbnid=sjLj_WCLyiL6ZM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmadebybrian.com%2Fscripts%2F3.14-pie-meme-i6.jpg&ei=T6A3Ud-sLcLuyAH124DYBw&psig=AFQjCNHXw5mM1sV3aZzLZ4Oc-I1HATsfug&ust=1362686415790054

LSchefman
03-06-2013, 03:30 PM
I'm not annoyed at you for your opinion. It's when you get dismissive of the concerns of others.

I've tried to make worthwhile contributions here and elsewhere, and to provide useful information to people looking for recording tips, information about gear, etc.

I'm not perfect.

cwhenke
03-06-2013, 06:25 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2155/2420100292_d94ed6d8e0.jpg

Now, THAT looks good!

LSchefman
03-06-2013, 06:40 PM
Now, THAT looks good!

I'm diabetic. Story of my life.