PDA

View Full Version : The X-Ray Thread



]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-22-2012, 06:14 PM
I'd like to rebuild an authoritative thread showing the hollow cavities of various models (proto, PS, or production).

I once had an X-Ray of my Sig LTD but lost it. I am sure someone out there has a copy.

Please post images you may have of PRS X-Rays along with any details you might have about the model.

JMintzer
05-22-2012, 07:30 PM
Limited Edition: Cedar top, Tune-o-Matic Bridge...

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2270/702387/1177246/286838947.jpg

I'll try to find the others I have...


Jamie

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-22-2012, 08:00 PM
Semi-hollow Singlecut. 90 made.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/SH_SC250.jpg

Weight-releived Singlecut.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/RelievedSC245.jpg

Early semi-hollow?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/hansomatic/Discussion/76848747.jpg

Shawn@PRS
05-22-2012, 08:20 PM
Just a note. The one showing the channels (from Martin Music) is a "Singlecut", not an "SC245".

VHTStark
05-22-2012, 08:27 PM
Just a note. The one showing the channels (from Martin Music) is a "Singlecut", not an "SC245".

I am confused. I thought just the SC245's and SC250's had the weight relief channels!

Shawn@PRS
05-22-2012, 08:51 PM
No, towards the end of the Singlecut life, we started doing the channels for weight relief. But as far as I know, when the SC245 and SC250's came on board, the weight relief stopped. There maybe a handful of weight relieved SC245 or SC250's with channels, but not many( if any).

The Tremonti was never weight relieved per Mark's request.

dprather
05-23-2012, 12:07 AM
No, towards the end of the Singlecut life, we started doing the channels for weight relief. But as far as I know, when the SC245 and SC250's came on board, the weight relief stopped. There maybe a handful of weight relieved SC245 or SC250's with channels, but not many( if any).

The Tremonti was never weight relieved per Mark's request.



I've got a Sunburst 245 that's barely 7.5 lbs, seems extremely light. Since my x-ray machine is on the fritz, is there an easy way to tell if it has channels? (I don't know if I could hear them tapping around the top or not?)

cwhenke
05-23-2012, 05:20 AM
Not the best, but this is an Rtist II trem...
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/cwhenke/PRSAII/x4.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/cwhenke/PRSAII/x1.jpg

-CM-
05-23-2012, 06:55 AM
Malpractice:

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CMphotographs/Guitars/xray.jpg

Shawn@PRS
05-23-2012, 07:27 AM
No, towards the end of the Singlecut life, we started doing the channels for weight relief. But as far as I know, when the SC245 and SC250's came on board, the weight relief stopped. There maybe a handful of weight relieved SC245 or SC250's with channels, but not many( if any).

The Tremonti was never weight relieved per Mark's request.



I've got a Sunburst 245 that's barely 7.5 lbs, seems extremely light. Since my x-ray machine is on the fritz, is there an easy way to tell if it has channels? (I don't know if I could hear them tapping around the top or not?)


I'm not sure about the "Sunburst" series. I'l have to check into that.

hippietim
05-23-2012, 10:52 AM
Would it be possible to get the chambers partially filled with some pebbles or beads? This way I wouldn't need to reach for one of those egg shakers to play some percussion - I could shake my guitar in front of the microphone.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-23-2012, 11:00 AM
Would it be possible to get the chambers partially filled with some pebbles or beads? This way I wouldn't need to reach for one of those egg shakers to play some percussion - I could shake my guitar in front of the microphone.
Now there's a visual. :shock:



:lol:

dprather
05-23-2012, 03:31 PM
Would it be possible to get the chambers partially filled with some pebbles or beads? This way I wouldn't need to reach for one of those egg shakers to play some percussion - I could shake my guitar in front of the microphone.

That's what headbangers do, just with their skulls... Lots of room in those craniums apparently. :lol:

tdarian
05-24-2012, 09:32 AM
No, towards the end of the Singlecut life, we started doing the channels for weight relief. But as far as I know, when the SC245 and SC250's came on board, the weight relief stopped. There maybe a handful of weight relieved SC245 or SC250's with channels, but not many( if any).
The Tremonti was never weight relieved per Mark's request.


Shawn, I'm confused, but I'm sure you can help by answering this question:

Alot of us have been operating under the assumption that all SC245s were weight relieved with the exception of special runs that were specifically noted as being solid/non-relieved such as the Willcutt's Wood Library run. Your statement above implies that the SC245s were in fact not weight relieved except for the "not many if any" handful. Can you verify the weight relief issue for SC245s. Were they, or were they not?

QueenCityGuitars
05-24-2012, 11:33 AM
The tone chambers!

george johnson
05-24-2012, 05:27 PM
A lot of us have been operating under the assumption that all SC245s were weight relieved with the exception of special runs that were specifically noted as being solid/non-relieved such as the Willcutt's Wood Library run.
This is because it's a fact.

Absolutely weight-relieved.

Taller
05-25-2012, 11:04 AM
This is because it's a fact.

Absolutely weight-relieved.

And you know this how?

george johnson
05-25-2012, 12:09 PM
And you know this how?
Currently own three of them (SC245's) and I've played four or five others. Every one exhibited
the diffused/laid-back midrange qualities associated with this construction method.

Contemplated the possibility that, through sheer coincidence, each of the handful of
weight-relieved examples that were produced went through my hands. While I suppose that's possible, it's certainly not likely.

tdarian
05-25-2012, 12:46 PM
I'm pretty sure George is right based upon our collective historical understanding, but it would be nice if Shawn could clarify his earlier remarks on the topic, which began with the words "as far as I know".

Taller
05-25-2012, 04:02 PM
Currently own three of them (SC245's) and I've played four or five others. Every one exhibited
the diffused/laid-back midrange qualities associated with this construction method.

Contemplated the possibility that, through sheer coincidence, each of the handful of
weight-relieved examples that were produced went through my hands. While I suppose that's possible, it's certainly not likely.

Well, I admire your Eric Johnson-like ability to discern the subtle tonal differences in a guitar that has a few channels cut into it, but I'm more inclined to listen to what Shawn is telling us here, and I await his 'official' response to this matter.

MA Pete
05-27-2012, 11:53 PM
My 7.5 pound Sunburst 245 was most definitely weight-relieved! ;)

It has been common knowledge that SC 245's and SC 250's have been weight relieved since '07 or so, has been discussed to great lengths on BAM and confirmed.

This was said to have gone on through 2010, if you recall, one of the selling points for the SC 58's was that they were NOT weight relieved, unlike the SC 245's before them...

tdarian
05-28-2012, 12:01 AM
Exactly as I understood it to be, Pete.

george johnson
05-28-2012, 03:23 AM
Well, I admire your Eric Johnson-like ability to discern the subtle tonal differences

lol... I wasn't looking to cause a dust-up here, Donnie.

I was just answering your question using the best reference I have (personal
experience as opposed to something I read somewhere, or saw in an x-ray).

Peace Out

tdarian
05-28-2012, 10:19 AM
Could Shawn clear this up? His answer was not definative...it was more along the lines of "as far as I know".

My very clear recollection is that the SC245s were all relieved as Pete has said with the wood library exception. I'm not good enough to hear the difference but my sample size is too small, kinda like I find the Pattern neck to be, regretably.:(

Taller
05-30-2012, 09:36 AM
lol... I wasn't looking to cause a dust-up here, Donnie.

I was just answering your question using the best reference I have (personal
experience as opposed to something I read somewhere, or saw in an x-ray).

Peace Out

I remember there was a time when the word was that the 245's were not weight relieved. Then there was a contrasting opinion that was soon taken to be gospel. This is one of those goofy tidbits of information that has swirled around for some time now. It would be nice if there was official confirmation one way or the other from PRS.
Doesn't make any difference to me - my 245 is the best sounding/playing LP style guitar I've ever had the pleasure of owning.

tdarian
05-30-2012, 10:00 AM
Just a note. The one showing the channels (from Martin Music) is a "Singlecut", not an "SC245".


No, towards the end of the Singlecut life, we started doing the channels for weight relief. But as far as I know, when the SC245 and SC250's came on board, the weight relief stopped. There maybe a handful of weight relieved SC245 or SC250's with channels, but not many( if any).

The Tremonti was never weight relieved per Mark's request.

Again, we do have a member of this forum and a participant in this thread who I believe is empowered to remove any doubt, at least where there is certainty,.

And FWIW I agree with Taller about the SC245...it has fended off numerous TEDs (difficult!) and even more SC58s (with ease!). Relieved or not...I'm only curious but do not care beyond that curiousity. Shawn, can we get more definative than "But as far as I know..."?

Thanks!

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-30-2012, 10:28 AM
The is the X-Ray thread.

Let's just zap your SC245 with some high-energy electromagnetic waves and see! ;)

tdarian
05-30-2012, 10:36 AM
Just a note. The one showing the channels (from Martin Music) is a "Singlecut", not an "SC245".


The is the X-Ray thread.

Let's just zap your SC245 with some high-energy electromagnetic waves and see! ;)

This might be a good time for straight answers.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-30-2012, 10:55 AM
This might be a good time for straight answers.
So... you're going to take my thread (that was supposed to be fun) and brow-beat it with some left-over energy from a different topic?

tdarian
05-30-2012, 11:13 AM
So... you're going to take my thread (that was supposed to be fun) and brow-beat it with some left-over energy from a different topic?

No, I finally got over the nebulous answer that I got about the frets. Just would rather not pay for a sexray.

Edit: I promise I won't be ticked if the SC245s turn out to not be, or to be, weight relieved. If the photos reveal that a scalpel was left behind in one of the cavities, that would be a novelty.

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-30-2012, 11:15 AM
No, I finally got over the nebulous answer that I got about the frets..
Yet another issue from a different thread. I can't imagine PRS is going to detail all of their trade secrets on this site (or anywhere else) - but I certainly understand your desire to know.


Just would rather not pay for a sexray.
I dunno, man. A "sexray" sounds like a good time to me. How much are we talkin'? :)

tdarian
05-30-2012, 11:22 AM
Yet another issue from a different thread. I can't imagine PRS is going to detail all of their trade secrets on this site (or anywhere else) - but I certainly understand your desire to know.


I dunno, man. A "sexray" sounds like a good time to me. How much are we talkin'? :)

That depends. Do you want the optional run through the Orgasmatron first? (I highly recommend it!)

]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T !
05-30-2012, 11:26 AM
That depends. Do you want the optional run through the Orgasmatron first? (I highly recommend it!)Well YEAH!

(How's that for a straight answer!)

george johnson
05-30-2012, 11:27 AM
Do you want the optional run through the Orgasmatron first?

Yes please.

LSchefman
05-31-2012, 10:48 PM
While we're at this discussion, I need to be X-Rayed, Sex-Rayed, Orgasmatroned and Weight-Relieved.

Do I go to the PTC for that?

Goldtop
06-01-2012, 12:29 AM
http://991.com/NewGallery/Motorhead-Orgasmatron-299955.jpg

Speaking of Orgasmatron...

Goldtop

Fox77
06-01-2012, 07:18 AM
Well, my SC250 came with "operating instructions" by PRS that state that the guitar has tone chambers. It's from 2007. I can look up the exact date when it was finished, but I assume it must be one of the early ones then.

rschleicher
06-01-2012, 03:43 PM
I have a more general question (or questions), just out of curiosity:

I assume that the weight-relief "channels", as well as the larger semi-hollow cavities, are routed out from the top side of the main body wood, prior to the top piece being glued on. (I don't see any other way to do it, basically.) Presumably at least the top surface of the main body has already been planed. I would also assume that the locating holes would have to already exist on the body, so that the CNC machine knows where to route. Then after the top is glued on, then you can do top-side carving/routing (both of the top carve, as well as the pup cavities, holes for the pots and switches, etc.), as well as the bottom-side carving/routing (for the trem cavity, controls cavity, etc.). Is this the basic sequence?

With my CU24, it doesn't seem like any routing needs to be done before the body and top are glued together. In other words, I think everything can be routed from the top or bottom of the body/top sandwich, after the maple has been glued to the mahogany. Is this true for all of the double-cut guitars, or everything that isn't weight relieved or semi-hollow? I suppose that the wiring channel on the SC guitars from the pup switch to the control cavity might still need to be pre-routed before gluing the top wood onto the body...

The virtual tour of the PRS factory, in the section that talks about body construction, seems to just show the double-cut process, where it doesn't appear as if any routing is needed before the top wood is glued to the bottom wood. But I hadn't really thought about the fact that it's more complicated for any guitars with weight-relief or semi-hollow bodies, and that even a "solid" SC guitar still has to have the wiring channel to the switch routed out.

Or am I misunderstanding how my CU24 was built, and there is in fact some amount of body routing that had to be done before the top was glued on, even for this non-weight-relieved DC guitar? You still have to create a wire-channel from the pick-up cavities (routed from the top) to the control cavity (routed from the bottom) - is this done via a horizontal (or mostly horizontal) drilling step? Or were these channels actually routed before the top was glued down?

Obviously there is no real need for me to understand this - I just find it interesting!

tdarian
06-01-2012, 03:51 PM
Someone should go into those chambers and free the tone, man. It's been fermenting in there long enough.

JMintzer
06-01-2012, 05:41 PM
I have a more general question (or questions), just out of curiosity:

I assume that the weight-relief "channels", as well as the larger semi-hollow cavities, are routed out from the top side of the main body wood, prior to the top piece being glued on. (I don't see any other way to do it, basically.) Presumably at least the top surface of the main body has already been planed. I would also assume that the locating holes would have to already exist on the body, so that the CNC machine knows where to route. Then after the top is glued on, then you can do top-side carving/routing (both of the top carve, as well as the pup cavities, holes for the pots and switches, etc.), as well as the bottom-side carving/routing (for the trem cavity, controls cavity, etc.). Is this the basic sequence?

With my CU24, it doesn't seem like any routing needs to be done before the body and top are glued together. In other words, I think everything can be routed from the top or bottom of the body/top sandwich, after the maple has been glued to the mahogany. Is this true for all of the double-cut guitars, or everything that isn't weight relieved or semi-hollow? I suppose that the wiring channel on the SC guitars from the pup switch to the control cavity might still need to be pre-routed before gluing the top wood onto the body...

The virtual tour of the PRS factory, in the section that talks about body construction, seems to just show the double-cut process, where it doesn't appear as if any routing is needed before the top wood is glued to the bottom wood. But I hadn't really thought about the fact that it's more complicated for any guitars with weight-relief or semi-hollow bodies, and that even a "solid" SC guitar still has to have the wiring channel to the switch routed out.

Or am I misunderstanding how my CU24 was built, and there is in fact some amount of body routing that had to be done before the top was glued on, even for this non-weight-relieved DC guitar? You still have to create a wire-channel from the pick-up cavities (routed from the top) to the control cavity (routed from the bottom) - is this done via a horizontal (or mostly horizontal) drilling step? Or were these channels actually routed before the top was glued down?

Obviously there is no real need for me to understand this - I just find it interesting!

Not sure about the weight relieved routes, but the semi-hollow guitars are routed from the back, and a mahogany cap is glued on. You can tell if a guitar is semi-hollow two ways.

1: The belly carve is much shallower.

2: The body is a bit thicker, almost McCarty thickness. You evan ss the additional thickness if you look at the jack plate.

Here is a typical CU-22. Note how the jack plate extends up into the maple cap...

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2270/702387/1931814/24045576.jpg

Now, here is a semi-hollow CU-22. Note how the jack plate ends beneath the maple cap...

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2270/702387/1931814/24045380.jpg

Also, on lighter stained backs, you can sometimes see a very faint seam where the cap is attached to the back of the guitar...

Hope this helps...


Jamie

clcwarlock
03-02-2013, 06:10 PM
I would love to have an X-ray of my P24 on a t-shirt