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So I gather the change may have initially been one for ease of use? Rather than a poll of who likes what, or complaining about the tuners, my intention was to try and get an answer as to why the company changed the design.
I'm just a fan of these tuners and I am curious about them, I appreciate any information.
As well as the tuners worked, there was most certainly a learning curve.
Many people never got the hang of them.
It's my guess that once enough people complained, PRS listened. Hence, the Phase II tuners... Much easier to use...
It's also possible that there was a supply side issue with them...
Jamie
I'm not trying to speak for PRS (the company or the man himself), but I think most of us can agree that the main concern about any element of the instruments or amps they make is how they sound. Having said that, I'd be willing to bet that the primary reason for the change in tuners was because they felt a better sound could be had.
I've owned guitars with all of the tuners PRS offers. I've never had a problem with any of them, but I just never cared for the winged version. I much prefer Phase III, Phase II, or even the vintage/Kluson-style, in that order because I feel that the sound transfer, as well as the tone, is better.
Goldtop
The winged tuners are my favorite PRS tuners.
The winged tuners were one of the many things that distinguished PRS guitars from the rest. If you see a guitar with winged tuners, you know who made it, (of course the headstock & body shapes are a dead give-away too).
I miss them.
Having said that, I do love the new tuners also.
Back in the day, there were no alternatives and they were the coolest and best tuners I'd used. Quirky? A little complicated? Yes, but that was the allure. Simply brilliant. I loved them then, and I love them now. One of the quintessential PRS trademarks. 8-)
I first learned about PRS in the phase II days. I loved them and thought they were the brightest idea to come a long for tuners. Then I learned of the winged ones. I again thought they were original and great but not as simple an idea as the phas II's. I have since found a few used PRSi that have them and I find them simple to use but not as easy as the phase II's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogie
I'm assuming that Phase IIs & IIIs were introduced because they sound better and/or sustain more than the previous incarnations.
PRS call these tuners 'low mass' which points to the benefit of having lower mass on this part of the guitar.
Anyone weigh in on this? Are the Phase IIs lighter than the Winged? IIIs over IIs? Any one noticed any changes in tone/sustain when swapping on the same axe?
Here is a bit o history regarding the winged tuners that I used to make for PRS.
This was saved off of the BAM website.
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Subject: Stamped Wing Tuners
My name is John Mann and I owned Mil-Com Industries Inc (aka MannMade USA). I made 99% of all the locking tuners in existence. The ones with PRS "stamped" into the wings are actually powdered (sinthered) metal units. But the parts without the PRS stamp are machined by me.
PRS tried this [sinthered] method 3 different times over the years, starting in the early 90's. The switch over was prompted by cost factors, however they never truly proved as successful or reliable as the machined parts. Many parts failed by cracking right at the string break point. This was mostly due to the microscopic voids inherent in PM (powdered metal) parts. PM parts are made by compressing ground metal (as fine as baby powder) under extremely high pressure and then heating it up until the metal flows. The parts are then hardened by a heat treatment process. It's kind of the same as building a sand castle with a bucket as a mold... if you will. Machined parts were made from solid bar stock and then heat treated to the necessary hardness.
I don't have an exact count, but I am sure if I dig around, I can come up with some spares if anyone is interested. Could also consider making a limited batch if there is a need for them."
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ADDITIONAL INFO:
Paul Smith and Eric Pritchard designed the winged tuner. The prototypes were symetrical in shape and as I recall either plain steel or nickel plated.
I think the original prototype tuners were nickel plated. They also have little arrows etched on them.
Thanks John for the very interesting history lesson. 8-) And thanks VERY much for the gracious offer of spare wings. Do you have solid or sintered stock left? Perhaps we need to take this off forum, but it's a safe bet that there will be several of us interested in getting some spares, just in case.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mann
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogie
Real men used winged tuners.
I would only have the stamped and machined ones, as that is all I made for PRS. They are packed away someplace in my storage space and won't be able to locate them until I complete my move into my new factory space, which will be sometime this summer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogie
Oh cool ... never saw that before ...Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiodeblanc