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Thread: Not another "conspricacy theory" from Bennett again???

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  1. #1
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    "PRS CSI"....forensic examiners...welcome!

    Well...let's start by disavowing any desire to stir any pots. And, furthermore, if this "CSI PRS" results in my guitar being "out-ed" in any way....so be it. I am genuinely curious. And I really don't care if mine turns out to be a "fake" in one sense of the word. And, in retrospect...I don't like the title of my thread...but I can't change it now. There's no conspiracy going on...just a state of confusion!

    Here are the facts....the following guitar has been offered for auction on Ebay for months now....mods.....if I am skating on thin ice with regard to rules concerning "selling" please delete the link...however, since I cannot copy images from the auction, suffice to say that it is an '01 Singlecut signed on the back plate and numbered 68/250 from the limited run of Brazilian necked siglecuts from that era. The hangtag is dated 7/31/01 and otherwise is IDENTICAL to my hang tag with the exception that mine is dated later and has a later serial number. BTW.... I have ABSOLUTELY no connection to the seller in any way.

    Here is the link:


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/261102379961...torefresh=true

    Well...here is the crux of the biscuit, as they say.

    I own the following guitar:










    So...which one is the REAL #68/250???? Or, were there two, and Paul didn't want to release a "soixante neuf" production number?

    I would really like to find out how both guitars wound up with the same number, ostensibly from the same production run. I can only go by what the previous owner told me....it was a local dealer who represented it as one of the BRW numbered guitars from that run.

    Comments? Thoughts?? I really don't care if mine is not "real"....the guitar plays great and I enjoy it. I just want to know if there is a question as to the veracity of the provenance, since I wouldn't want to sell it in the future and unintentionally misrepresent it. Oh...and it's NOT for sale.


    Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by docbennett; 10-01-2012 at 03:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Of the BRW neck guitars I've owned or fondled, the number in the pup cavity has never matched the number that was hand-written in gold ink on the outside of the cavity plate. If the plate is lost, the guitar's provenance is still inside the pickup cavity but there is no evidence of the number written on the plate. I haven't seen any of the original cavity plates with a hash sign (#) in front of the assigned number but every time I think I've got "the way things were" figured out, someone presents an anomaly. Finally, I haven't seen any of the original control cavity covers for the BRW Singlecuts with Paul's signature next to the number (unless it was added later).

    Have you contacted the seller to find out if they have any more info on their guitar?
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  3. #3
    Wheels cjmwrx's Avatar
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    I hate ads/websites that use a black background and white text. Makes me fell like I am going to have a seizure.
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  4. #4
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    Wow that is very strange.
    The auction did say and has a picture of when it was signed by Paul at a store event. So it should have happened afterwards.

    If any of those two is a fake then we are all doomed, because those look as real as you can get by pictures.

    Have you tried putting the barcode number/letters in the site that gives you the details and see if it matches your guitar? I can't find the link but it was posted here.

    I guess the only other thing you can do is check the pickup cavity as mentioned before.
    Last edited by Artist; 10-01-2012 at 04:11 PM.
    '96 CE-24 with Bird Inlays - VY | '91 CE-24 (road warrior) - VS | '06 SC Artist - Blue Matteo Satin | '12 Tremonti SE Custom | MESA Roadster

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Artist View Post
    If any of those two is a fake then we are all doomed, because those look as real as you can get by pictures.
    I don't think either guitar is a fake.
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  6. #6
    Bobble Head Moderator JMintzer's Avatar
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    The #68/250 is written differently than any of the one's I've owned. And as has been said, I've never seen one come signed like that.

    The neck -does- look to be brazilian, though...

    Strange bird, indeed...


    Jamie
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  7. #7
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    My favorite theory is the "we won't do a 69, so we'll do 2 68's" theory :-). Now that I've read the preceding, I plan to open 'er up this weekend and take a glance inside the pickup cavity...and I will post the pictures also.

  8. #8
    Senior Member AP515's Avatar
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    We know this much: the cover plate on the other one is NOT original. The writting is not right. IMO the guitars are both ligit. Both have similar options, BRW necks, mixed hardware, same birds. It could be as simple as the original buyer kept the numbered plate and somebody later wrote a number on a replacement plate and got your number by chance.
    1988 CE24, 1995 CE22, 2000 SC, 2006 Cu24 AP, 2006 SC AP, 2007 CuRo22, 2008 Mira, 2010 Starla Stoptail, 2012 Mira
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  9. #9
    Gag Halfrunt (Bill) used to own this one. Just sent me some info. Hopefully he'll chime in.

    The plate in the eBay listing is not original. This is the plate it had when Bill bought it from Brent in 2010.



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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! View Post
    Gag Halfrunt (Bill) used to own this one. Just sent me some info. Hopefully he'll chime in.

    The plate in the eBay listing is not original. This is the plate it had when Bill bought it from Brent in 2010.



    Hello all,

    After a pleasant email exchange with Hans, he suggested I post a little of this guitar's history. Here is what I know:

    Hans, to answer your question, I owned the guitar in the ebay listing, and it is indeed 68/250. I bought it from Brent at The Guitar Shop in July of 2010. I sold it last year to a guy in Florida named Jamie Comar who was a new member of BaM. I remember he was a brand new Bammer because I insisted on payment from him via wire transfer. I think he might be the guy selling it now, because not long after I sold him this mint SC BRW Ltd for $4k, he tried to sell me a beat up Teal SC from this line (18/250 he said) for $5k. It seemed like something a retailer (but non-PRS Dealer) would try to do (as a collector would know values better than that). I politely told him he was not in the right ball park.

    I can tell you for certain that the control cavity cover with Paul's signature in the ebay listing is not the stock one. I've included a picture of the cover that Brent sent me when I was considering buying it from him. You can tell the numbers are written differently on the original cover vs the one in the ebay listing. IIRC this guy has been trying to sell the guitar on ebay at this price for almost a year. Also included are pictures of the pickup cavities.

    To add some intrigue, I also owned 168/250 in this series (Ruby Red), and the '1' on the 168 was virtually completely gone from the cover, so much so that when I bought it from Guitar Center last year, they advertised it as 68/250. But if you looked REALLY closely, you could see that there had originally been a '1' there. When I bought the guitar, the manila tag on the case handle (the ones GC puts on cases sometimes) had the correct 168/250 written on it.

    The guitar in the ebay listing is a great one. If I hadn't completely sworn off RW necks, I would still own it.

    I hope this helps,

    Bill

  11. #11
    What's Up Doc (apropos, only this one's from the Bogdonavich movie)?

    Howard: It gets kind of complicated now. First, there was this trouble between me and Hugh.
    Judge Maxwell: You and me?
    Howard: No, not you. Hugh.
    Hugh: I am Hugh.
    Judge Maxwell: You are me?
    Hugh: No, I am Hugh.
    Judge Maxwell: Stop saying that!
    [to bailiff]
    Judge Maxwell: Make him stop saying that!
    Hugh: Don't touch me, I'm a doctor.
    Judge Maxwell: Of what?
    Hugh: Music.
    Judge Maxwell: Can you fix a hi-fi?
    Hugh: No, sir.
    Judge Maxwell: Then shut up!

    Note: I'm not telling Bennett to shut up via this post. It's a quote from a movie about a mixup. That's simply how the dialog ends.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 10-01-2012 at 10:11 PM.

  12. #12
    Bullet the Blue Sky clmazza's Avatar
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    Strange, indeed. I've had something similar happen to me with another guitar manufacturer. The guitar in question was sent to the manufacturer to confirm its authenticity. It was validated that there were two guitars made with the same serial number issued. "Mistakes happen" was the excuse I was given.

    With that said... I believe both are legit. On an aside... SWEET guitar!

  13. #13
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    I've been contemplating buying the other one, just so I can say that "one of these is definitely from the run of 250"

    Seriously, this is a seriously nice sounding SC, and for the life of me I don't understand the dislike of the #7 pickups...they sound great...to my ears (well, that may explain it).

    I plan to pull the pickups this weekend, just out of curiosity to see what is inside the cavity. For example...I have a 10th anniversary model thats COA indicates that final assembly was completed by PRSh himself (that's redundant). So...a fellow forum member recommended awhile back that I open it up....the theory being that if PRSh did the final assembly and signed off on the COA in that spot as well as his usual place...then maybe the guitar was specially targeted to someone....special.

    So I opened it up. And found...the usual serial number and nutin' else. Who'd have thunk it?

  14. #14
    Member Artist's Avatar
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    This is all very fascinating. I think it is amazing from the point where two guitars get the same number, to Bennett finding the listing with his number, to another member tracing the original owner and then Bill giving the full story. It is a small world after all

    Item has been relisted
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/261107883681

    But to make things worst, I just noticed the following in one of the auction pictures: Along with the case candy there is what appears to be the original cavity cover.


    At first glimpse you may say that it is the one from the photo that Bill provided but it is Not! Just by seeing the 250 it is clear.


    So there are now 4 different 68/250 plates on two guitars. There is something very funky going on with these covers. To me, numbers like these that identify a set of limited run guitars should be somewhere on the guitar itself along with the other numbering or at least the hang tags.
    Last edited by Artist; 10-03-2012 at 10:17 PM.
    '96 CE-24 with Bird Inlays - VY | '91 CE-24 (road warrior) - VS | '06 SC Artist - Blue Matteo Satin | '12 Tremonti SE Custom | MESA Roadster

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artist View Post
    So there are now 4 different 68/250 plates on two guitars. There is something very funky going on with these covers. To me, numbers like these that identify a set of limited run guitars should be somewhere on the guitar itself along with the other numbering or at least the hang tags.
    If they had done that, they could not have released 2,350 of the "300 Artist V's"


    OK....just kidding. But there sure seemed to be more than 300 out there.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    If they had done that, they could not have released 2,350 of the "300 Artist V's"


    OK....just kidding. But there sure seemed to be more than 300 out there.
    I'm going to get out a gold pen and mark "301 of 300" on mine. It'll give Bennett something to worry about when someone puts it on ebay after I'm dead.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    I'm going to get out a gold pen and mark "301 of 300" on mine.
    I had one of those once. I sold it to the guy with the other one.

    IMO, the pair (together) is worth more. Looking back, I should have kept Sig LE #300/300 (the 1st one made) and tried to buy the other.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    I'm going to get out a gold pen and mark "301 of 300" on mine. It'll give Bennett something to worry about when someone puts it on ebay after I'm dead.
    Are you implying that I actually worry about these things I post Les??

    I'm sure you're being facetious, as I am sure you are well aware that I couldn't care less about the provenance...as stated in the OP.
    But, to be honest, there are times when I post questions on this forum and cringe as I await your sarcastic reply. I know you mean well Les...but maybe...just maybe....you can actually let me post questions now and then without the need to diminish my attempt to use the forum as a Q & A?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    Are you implying that I actually worry about these things I post Les??
    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Hello! Not serious!
    Hey Shawn, I think I have an idea for next year's Experience!

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  20. #20
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    Are you implying that I actually worry about these things I post Les??

    I'm sure you're being facetious, as I am sure you are well aware that I couldn't care less about the provenance...as stated in the OP.
    But, to be honest, there are times when I post questions on this forum and cringe as I await your sarcastic reply. I know you mean well Les...but maybe...just maybe....you can actually let me post questions now and then without the need to diminish my attempt to use the forum as a Q & A?

    Doc...if it makes you feel any better....I find the two of you quite amusing...,the key to les...is you must embrace him! Be one with him! Let go! Give in to your inner Les! You provide joy for so many readers! Don't end the fun!
    -Bob

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