I am a PLAYER and according to SOME People here on the forum a FLIPPER
You make so many points it's hard to give a single answer. Let me try to give your post the response it deserves. Please excuse me for chopping up into consumable pieces.
PRS Owner & Caretaker
Last edited by ]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ©; 10-09-2012 at 08:36 PM.
Man, I've thought about this too much over the past few years.
At times, I've been too much of a caretaker and not enough of an owner. My PRSi reside in their cases, partly because they're in my basement and I don't want them to get damaged unnecessarily. But they all get played. I've had that sinking feeling when taking a guitar off only to pause in the midst of removal when the headstock hit a track lighting fixture. Followed by moments of self-recrimination for worrying about it.
I don't gig. At times, I wish I did. But if I ever do again, I'll take some of my PRSi. That's why I have them.
But "use" and "abuse", as has been pointed out, are not necessarily synonymous.
As for the guys who throw them around, if one of us were to obtain a legendary guitarist's icon axe, throw it on the ground, stand on it and bend the neck in, beat on it mercilessly and then post a video of it, there wouldn't be enough kindling in the world to supply the flames that would be directed at us.
Jump to 3:45.
"I watched approximately 45 seconds of 'Rock Of Ages'. It was like getting punched in the soul." - Abby Krizner
I move my belt buckle to my side, away from the body of the guitar when I play. That plus wearing an untucked T-shirt (or other knit shirt) has been enough to prevent worming and scratches.
I keep them cased when not being played. Dirt gets cleaned off the guitar body when needed with a damp microfiber cloth, and dried with a clean one. When the humidity drops below 35%, I turn on a humidifier in the room I keep them in.
I change the strings when they lose their tone or start to feel crummy. If they need adjustment, I get them adjusted (but that hasn't happened in a long time because of the humidifier and case habit).
Light scratches, I can polish out. If I got a dent that bothered me, I'd probably send the guitar to PTC for repair, and get a setup as well just for the sheer joy of it.
In any case, while I'm careful to try not to bump the guitar into things, the existence of the PTC is a reassuring thing, since I have so much confidence that they'd do a great job with any repair.
Last edited by LSchefman; 10-09-2012 at 07:20 PM.
I'm an owner, I play my PRSi as much as I can, I bought both new so that I was the only one with my hands on them. After I am gone my kids will be able to see the wear I put on them and if they play they can have a connection with the instrument that started out in our family new with me, Dad. I sent the warranty card in for my custom 24 and I'll be sending the warranty card in for my P24. I will take care of thee 2 beautiful instruments but I am not afraid to play them.
Unless i miss my guess, HANS is deep into his menopausal state. Peace be with you!
I put a nice gash in a CU24 at a Gig several years back..................... sold it the next week
Fanboy of the Jester (AKA) James (Previously known as 11top)
Interesting....never really thought about it much. Guitars seem pretty sturdy to me. I guess I don't jump off of amps or anything while gigging, but is stuff really getting banged up that much from "normal" playing and gigging? The debate seems more like an intellectual exercize rather than a practical thing. Sure, I could ding a headstock while gigging by bumping into something, but it seems just as likely that I'd do that at home. I suppose I could just leave guitars in their cases, and fine by me if someone gets a kick out of just knowing that they have a really cool guitar in a case in a closet, but that wouldn't work very well for me I think. I have a couple of vintage '54 LPs, and if I'm playing out with them, I put them back in their case between sets rather than leave them on a stand like I normally do.....but that's mainly because they've survived so long and are in such good shape that it seems like there is a history worth protecting. Even so, I wouldn't get a charge out of having them if I couldn't take them out and about. It just seems to me that if you watch belt buckles, and aren't going nuts on stage, the risk is pretty small. And if it isn't a vintage guitar where originality is important, if something gets banged up, it isn't that tough to fix it.
Ahh ok so maybe I do remember this thread now! Thanks Hans for bringing it back to life, it certainly makes for some interesting reflection and discussion.
I'm probably about a 70/30 split between "owner" and "caretaker" (I play all my guitars but take care of them). One thing the EG build has shown me is how much I enjoy tinkering and modifying things, whether it be motorbikes or guitars, there's something that appeals to me about having something that is different, something I have worked on, so there's more investment than just $. I've invested time building it, and now I'm going to invest time playing it. If a scratch or ding comes along perhaps due to some over-enthusiastic behavior, I guess that's part of the investment, and the return is the memories of how it got there (which is echoing Hans' first post).
Thinking about other ways to invest, it could be "the search", scouring dealers, on-line markets etc for "the one" ("the one" being whatever you have GAS for at the time...), walking into guitar shops and demo'ing a guitar, gelling instantly and creating a bond, and perhaps one of the more pertinent ones would be speccing a Private Stock... The investment of time/energy deciding on all the options, taking the risk that it'll work out how you think it will, the wait, the anxiety, the glory of opening the case for the first time, strumming it, plugging it in...
Maybe one day I'll can afford (in $) to make the "investment" of a PS, I think that satisfaction of having something different, something I have worked on etc will be there.
I don't keep my guitars in their cases. all of them are in guitar stands and when I have to transport them, I use the gig bag. I do take care of them, but I don't mind if they have dings and or scratches. I don't like relic and fake age process, but I don't mind when the guitar isn't shinning and perfect looking.
I like to think of myself of a owner or heavy user and not an abuser.
Well, I don't like it when my guitars get scars and bruises (which sometimes can't be avoided), but on the ohter hand I did a piezo install on my Cu24
Last edited by Jazzedout; 10-10-2012 at 03:21 AM.
1992 PRS Cu24 Tortoise Shell, "10",Birds, Reg Neck
2005 PRS 513 Brazilian Rosewood Orange
Generally I look upon my guitars as the tools of my trade for the most part. I'm not giving any thought to passing them on or selling them. They're mine and there to be played by me. Like any tool I look after them as best I can so I can get the best out of them but I don't treat them with kid gloves...
Actually, that's not strictly true. I do when I first get them but once I start seeing those first signs of wear and tear then I worry less. I'm generally not afraid to take them apart and modify them if they need it and I feel i'm up to the job, indeed with my cheapos such as my Yamaha Pacifica and Squier anything goes. Did my own fret dress on the Squier which turned out reasonably well but I wouldn't dream of doing that to my main Strat or Bernie, let alone a $2k+ guitar.
I want them there ready to play and I want them all to play as well as can be and sound as good as they can. They all sit on a modified stand in a (locked) room which I monitor with a couple of Thermometer/hygrometers so it's fair to say i'm much more uptight about looking after my music equipment than perhaps anything else I own. It's an investment of sorts. Not with a view to sell on but I put all my hard earned cash into my equipment so I want to get the best out of it for as long as possible.
I do feel I have to be honest here though...
I don't own any expensive guitars and never have. I will once i've got on the housing ladder but for now I aim to get the best out of more modestly priced equipment. Would I treat a £2k+ PRS any differently from my current guitars? To start with certainly... It'd be like a scene from Spinal Tap, "Don't even look at it!" But i'd have to ask hard questions of myself if I was so worried about the guitar I feared playing it. I guess I won't really know until it happens.
Same with collecting. Part of me thinks "Why collect guiars? They should be played", but that's possibly the view of someone who can't afford to collect. I have a niggling suspicion that if I could afford to collect I may well do.
Ultimately, perhaps, the guitar would have to mean something to you in some way whether it gets played or not. I think if I had a lot of guitars but some rarely came out of a case then i'd offload them. Hopefully i'd be left with guitars I enjoy playing and guitars that have some kind of meaning or story to them.
Well Hans yet another interesting thread that has brought out views of all kinds which is great. I would consider myself an owner that just likes fine guitars. I gig out regulary with my sig limited and it is getting alot of scars quickly ( mainly on the back ) but its not really bothering me because when I'm gigging its more about playing the best guitar I have and feeling the most comfortable with it. I don't own any PS or one offs but if I did , I'm guessing I would be playing out with those also but thats just who I am and not everybody is the same . That being said one of my first PRSi was a 94 McCarty and I gigged with it until I became a little more informed and realized that is one guitar that will probably never see a stage again . Just me putting my two cents in on the conversation.
My name is Matt and I'm a guitarholic
1994 McCarty; 2010 Charcoal Burst Modern Eagle Quatro; 2012 Fire Red Burst Signature Limited;2012 Charcoal Buster Siggy ( PTC Modified ); 2012 Vintage Burst Stripper; 2012 Charcoal 408 Standard w/ Crackwood; 2012 NOS ME1 Tiger Eye
I am one of those who became a bit "defensive" about the term "Caretaker" on the original BaM thread. Some of my defensiveness derived from the comments of some members who wrote about how "proud they were to deliberately make their first dink or dent on their otherwise pristine guitar" so that "they could now say that it was theirs". this, I thought, was just plain crazy. To deliberately mar a nice object, just to show "ownership"? Not in my repertoire of possible behaviors, and in my opinion a reckless disregard for the value an item represents.
As far as this thread goes....I am a collector like Markie....but I care for my instruments in a similar fashion to both he and Les. I do not allow myself to play with belt buckles rubbing against the back, and I always try to remember my low ceilings in the basement when I decide to jump around while soloing. If I put a dink in a guitar...I typically obsess for days until I decide to have it repaired. and like bob above...I have had a guitar repaired by PTC and (due to my own carelessness) put it right back in the box for a new repair within days of getting it back for another spot repair.
That being said...I have a couple of "players" that I am not that concerned about. Anyone who has seen my white '86 standard would know that this is a guitar you can play and not worry about damaging its appearance. However, the bulk of my collection are kept in the case, rotated regularly for play, and maintained as meticuloously as possible. And yes..I have been a frequent consumer of the PTC's ability to repair obvious damage.
So...in the final analysis....I am a collector who plays....Which I guess makes me a "caretaker, through and through". I try to care for all my instruments in a manner to keep them as pristine as when I originally bought them....and, with the exception of a chosen few...I know that at some point in the future I will pare down the collection to the barest of essentials....2 electric guitars, 1 acoustic and maybe 2 amps. But...until then....guitars are one of the few places that I can see pumping funds into...enjoying for some time....keeping them in great condition...and then ultimately getting a return on your original investment that is reasonable despite having "consumed" the object for many years.
PS....in my opinion...those who are professional musicians have no need to be "caretakers". but, as Les and Markie have said before....you don't have to rough house or otherwise abuse your guitar to be a great player. It's just that a professional musician probably only rotates between a couple of guitars, and the wear and tear put on those is designed to earn a living as opposed to sustain a collection.
Last edited by docbennett; 10-10-2012 at 08:53 AM.
It just isn't in me.
Les mentioned the care classical musicians have for their instruments. Think of a Stradivarius who's 'owner' decided it needed to be set on fire or thrown across the room... What makes it OK to flail a guitar or destroy a set of drums as part of a 'performance?'
I hear you thinking that a $2k - $5K guitar is a different thing than a priceless Stradivarius and I say bull s**t! It is only different by degree.
I reject totally that one has to be blasť about even a dent or nick to be an 'owner.' PRSh is adamant that the guitars he builds are to be used, to be played. But that doesn't mean that they are not works of art. They are 'working art.'
When you own something it is yours to do with as you please. But what are we to think of someone who buys something and consumes it entirely when with care it could last for generations. I'm not thinking of the so many things in our society that are consumable and disposable from pencils to even what used to be considered 'durable goods' like washers and dryers. I'm talking about objects that we can use with out using them up in the process.
I think guitars (musical instruments) fall into that category.
Gork what your need to gork.
Consider, then, the guitar owner who loves his guitar, cares for it, and cringes when it gets a ding. He NEVER forgets where he was, what he was doing, maybe even the song being played when that ding occurred BECAUSE of his love for the guitar. How does that guitar not become a diary?
I still struggle to understand why anyone thinks I'm suggesting that I want to be casual about damaging my guitars.
Do you think they're having this same conversation on the "Hondo Guitar Forum"?
I remember the gigs, though. Some in a general way, at this point. Others very specifically.
I wish I'd made recordings of live gigs over the years, taken pics and video. That would be a more moving diary, at least for me, than looking at guitar dings.
I get that what you're saying is that you want to be less obsessive about your guitars' condition, and enjoy them more by using them without fear of damage.
I grok that your quest for "ownership" isn't about causing damage, but instead it's about controlling your own impulse to keep the guitars safe from damage.
Ultimately, this is why I believe it's not truly relevant to talk about "owners" and "caretakers," since those terms really don't have useful application.
There are owners who play their instruments, whose interests in keeping the guitars shiny varies as a matter of individual preference.
And there are owners who don't play them, for a variety of reasons, including fear of damage.
Moreover, there are probably some owners who keep some guitars safe in their collections, and who play others without fear of damage..
Ultimately we're all individuals, doing things in our own individual ways. I'm not convinced it's useful to create what I see as somewhat arbitrary distinctions, but if it helps you to overcome your own reluctance to do what you want with your stuff, I say more power to ya.
Last edited by LSchefman; 10-10-2012 at 12:03 PM.