Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: A System Approach To Gain Staging Guitar and Amp

  1. #1

    A System Approach To Gain Staging Guitar and Amp

    The dictionary defines a system as " a set of connected things or parts forming a complex whole." The electric guitar - amp combination certainly meets this definition.

    As a studio owner, dealing with mic preamps, mixers, etc., where gain staging is important to prevent (or when desired, cause) audio artifacts, I would also say that gain staging is an important issue that also applies to the guitar-amp system.

    Rane has a useful definition on its website. It defines gain as, "the amount of amplification (voltage, current or power) of an audio signal." As a PRS guitar has very useful volume pots, and amps these days often have both gain and master volume controls, there are lots of opportunities to shape the signal. Yet I often see even very superb players fail to take advantage of the multiple gain stages in their guitar equipment, and in so doing, lose the ability to color and control their signal in significant ways.

    If all a player does is turn the guitar controls all the way up, and then turn the gain up on the amp, set the controls, and leave everything in one place, not only are the sonic options decreased, there's literally nowhere to go when the tune or the solo calls for a little more emotion or a different sound. So people have to stomp on a pedal to get there, and while that certainly can work, a world of color options go missing. Not only that, but the capability built into a really good amp to respond to subtle gain changes from the guitar is completely wasted.

    It's often said that music is not only notes, but emotion. In my experience, emotion is a subtle thing, and when you see great players constantly adjusting their guitars while playing, you're seeing them use the controls to help express the most emotion from a tune.

    To have only one clean choice and one dirty choice out of your system is like having a singer who can hit the right notes, but only can whisper or shout, nothing in between. Boring!

    A tube responds to the signal coming from the guitar, and most amps' "gain" controls are preamp gain controls (most amps' Master volumes are for the power amp section). That is, they control how much signal is going to hit that preamp tube. And the tube responds to the gain from that signal by either passing it cleanly, or distorting. The beauty of tubes is that the distortion sounds interesting because it throws off certain harmonics and attenuates other harmonics as it distorts. If enough signal hits the tube, it goes into clipping. If the tube clips enough, the sine wave entering the tube becomes a square wave as the peaks of the signal are "clipped" off. A fuzz box is an item that sounds like it does because it generates square waves by operation of its transistors driven into clipping.

    To get why the waves can be important musically, it's because they sound different. On a synth, for example, one generates a clarinet sound with square waves, a piano with sine waves, and a violin with sawtooth waves. Then the harmonics are filtered to create the coloration that lets you identify the particular instrument. A single note from a very highly overdriven amp sounds more like a saxophone than an acoustic guitar's single note because you're generating square waves by heavily clipping the signal and creating them via the overdriven tubes. And a sax is very much like a clarinet in how it generates sound; it's a square wave oscillator.

    Thing is, these waves are easily shaped, and the tubes respond very smoothly to the nuances of gain in a great amp!

    The HX/DA, for example, is a perfect amp for me because it responds so gradually and smoothly to gain changes. IMHO, the corresponding ability to control the output of the guitar into the amp in a really good way via pickups and output knob is part of the coolness of PRS guitars.

    If you set your amp up to sound a certain way with the guitar's volume and tone controls set lower than their maximum output (I set mine up to get a desirable sound with the volume as low as 2 or 3), then you can control your gain, and your tone color, with the guitar volume, and with a good amp you can get an immense amount of color out of the amp.

    In fact, I think it's a bit of a waste to not use that capability to the fullest.

    It's not just a matter of "cleaning up" the signal by rolling off the volume either. It's that the tubes will be able to generate a tremendous variety of tone coloration because of the nature of how the circuits go into distortion and clipping to generate a variety of harmonic content. If you aren't gain staging your guitar system to take advantage of all this stuff, you're really missing something cool!

    With as many pickup, amp, switching, and other choices as there are in the world, it's not possible to say where to set what, as every piece of gear is different. But what I am suggesting is that players acclimate their ears to appreciate the desirability of achieving these tone colors, and learn how to get them in their rig.

    I do understand that there is a temptation to go for the brightest pickup sound with everything full-up, but with proper gain staging you can do that anyway. What I'd submit is that it's the in-between stuff that can make playing a more interesting and rewarding experience, especially for the audience. And to me, what separates the men from the boys, and the women from the girls, in an amp is the ability to sound good and respond to lots of different settings.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 11-14-2012 at 11:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,903
    Fantastic post!!! Very similiar in how I approach getting the most out of an amplifier as an instrument when setting up my guitar sound...even down to where I have my guitar volume set at...depending on guitar this will usually range between 2 and 6 on volume. This point has been further driven home since getting my Recording Amp.

    Derek Trucks is one of the best examples to date of guys who really get the guitar-->cord--> amp connection.
    -Bob

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    Fantastic post!!! Very similiar in how I approach getting the most out of an amplifier as an instrument when setting up my guitar sound...even down to where I have my guitar volume set at...depending on guitar this will usually range between 2 and 6 on volume. This point has been further driven home since getting my Recording Amp.

    Derek Trucks is one of the best examples to date of guys who really get the guitar-->cord--> amp connection.
    Glad you liked it, Bob! That recording amp of yours really looks to be a sweet instrument!

    I totally agree about Trucks. He flat-out gets a ton of nuance from his gear. And he has something to say on the instrument; he's made it more than a flashy showcase of skills, it's a real voice.

    I do have to mention that I use pedals sometimes. But with the volume control, a player can even get unexpected joys out of a decent pedal. Lots of players haven't even tried to see what happens to their clean tone when they roll down the guitar volume on a germanium fuzz! But lower it enough, and you get a very bright, edgy clean tone that can crunch up a clean setting on an amp that's really useful for certain tunes! Just another example of gain staging. Roll the volume on the guitar back up, and you have traditional square wave fuzz tones when you want them.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,903
    Agree with you about pedals too...as I'm sure you've seen from my pedal board.


    In regard to fuzzes...My main fuzz pedals are a Dirty Boy Afro Fuzz which is a Germanium/ High HFE Silicon transistor hybrid and a Roger Mayer Classic Fuzz which is all germanium...Germanium pedals have great tones as long as they are stable! I've heard that guys used to put their fuzzes in the freezer in order to get the best tone out of em back in the day.

    What you are talking about... in relation to volume being rolled back on a good fuzz is a very classic Hendrix type cleanish tone...and when coupled with the right amp ranks as one of my favorite tones of all time!

    The recording amp is absolutely king in terms of sensitivity to the guitar controls...I have been using my seafoam green custom 22 with unmarked 57/08's split and I hate to say it but IMHO it kills pretty much any strat marshall combo I have ever heard in achieving the famous strat plexi tones...I have been getting pure Band of Gypsies type tones out of it...it is the pinnacle of Bad-assery!

    add a good wah, fuzz, octave pedal, and univibe and you will be playing "Machine Gun" for hours on end....to get it right though you really need to understand how every single piece of equipment interacts with each other.

    the more pieces you add the messier things can get...and outside of overall level and unity gain headaches, more connections and equipment that can potentially go on you...signal degradation, touch sensitivity, and full control of your sound via guitar knobs can all degrade very quickly!
    Last edited by Dirty Bob; 11-14-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    -Bob

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    I've heard that guys used to put their fuzzes in the freezer in order to get the best tone out of em back in the day.
    Interesting! I know that certain transistors can be affected by heat. In fact, the tuning stability of the oscillators on old analog synths will drift because of the heat inside the case, which drove the guys who used them nuts!

    Of course, I started in bands before synthesizers became popular, back when our equipment van consisted of a cart tied to a woolly mammoth. You will not hear me say that aliens taught us how to generate electricity in various ways, so I'll just use the term, "squirrel cage induction generator actually powered by squirrels" to give you a hint. The good thing about having a woolly mammoth drag the cart was that you could have a feast day...you know, once the band broke up...
    Last edited by LSchefman; 11-14-2012 at 09:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,903


    I'd go for some mammoth right now...I'm starving!
    -Bob

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,903
    Yeah...I had pot roast instead!




    but that is a cool article!
    -Bob

  9. #9
    Still a Junior Member Albrecht Smuten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    860
    Thanks, Les (again). You just fixed my problem with missing volume pedal. Shamefully I admit that using the guitar's volume knob never crossed my mind
    Love for all human beings is like listening to any kind of music. You just don't care.
    The 3-Mike-7 devotee.

  10. #10
    ToneConsoleOfDoomOwner Sekunda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    501
    Yep... this is pretty much what I relearned today... Great post.
    ~ Matt

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Son, the HX/DA is a man's amp. One channel, not two, 50 watts of red hot glass crankin' out a tone that's big as...well...it's big.

  11. #11
    Senior Member gush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    washington iowa
    Posts
    785
    Its obvious that Lschefman knows what he is talking about. Its impressive. I discovered years ago the advantage mic placement. The gain stage thing is real stuff too. I started using my vol pot as an effect long ago but one time while recording my band live I was able to capture a certian song where I played this passage with my pot at 50 percent. Holy cow did that sound good! I began to understand how to get that "sound". That was a milestone in my quest for ultimate tone. I just picked up a used audix drum mic pack which includes an i5. Cant wait to try it on my cab.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    I just picked up a used audix drum mic pack which includes an i5. Cant wait to try it on my cab.
    I think you'll find that it's a bit fuller than a 57, with less of a midrange bump. It's a good mic!

  13. #13
    Senior Member captdg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    pensacola FL
    Posts
    498
    Mr. Schefman..thanks for a great post.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by captdg View Post
    Mr. Schefman..thanks for a great post.
    Thanks! I'm Les, by the way.

  15. #15

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •