Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46

Thread: The Motown Thread

  1. #21
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845
    Les...I was under the impression he was literally just focusing on the guitar parts and saying beyond that everything else in general it's just not his bag.


    now me....I dig me some Motown....look at some of the early R&B Hendrix appearances!
    Last edited by Dirty Bob; 01-13-2013 at 05:27 PM.
    -Bob

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,500
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    Les...I was under the impression he was literally just focusing on the guitar parts and saying beyond that everything else in general it's just not his bag.


    now me....I dig me some Motown....look at a lot of the early Hendrix appearances!!!
    Thank you very much. And as I said....everyone has different taste. NO reason to excoriate someone whose opinion differs, IMO.

    Never liked Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound" either. However, it appears that Phil was a crazy man who is now reaping the seeds he has sown. And, after that cameo in "Easy Rider" he went from the king of cool to the madman with the gun. Held the Ramones hostage at one point and threatened to shoot Dee Dee if they didn't finish the tracks as per his dictates.

  3. #23
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Downers Grove Il.
    Posts
    6,178
    I love this song, classiest use of the word "freaky" in a song I have ever heard.


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    Thank you very much. And as I said....everyone has different taste. NO reason to excoriate someone whose opinion differs, IMO.
    I'm not going to argue the point except to say this: Authorship of a tune is not a matter of opinion. And if you listen to the tune, the guitar part follows, and then does a variation on, the vocal melody.

    That melody was laid down before EVH walked into that studio. Without the melody that EVH did NOT write, there is no guitar part.

    So the comment that it's somehow an EVH tune is, I think, disrespectful of the actual author. I don't know why you'd want to do that. As a musician, I'll add this: If you can't appreciate the entirety of the tune and the soulfulness of the music and the melody it's based on, you'll never play that solo well. So that's your "punishment."
    Last edited by LSchefman; 01-13-2013 at 12:28 PM.

  5. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,500
    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    I'm not going to argue the point Oh Yes you are, Les except to say this: Authorship of a tune is not a matter of opinion. And if you listen to the tune, the guitar part follows, and then does a variation on, the vocal melody.

    That melody was laid down before EVH walked into that studio. Without the melody that EVH did NOT write, there is no guitar part.

    So the comment that it's somehow an EVH tune is, I think, disrespectful of the actual author. To be honest, I really don't care about being disrespectful to either MJ or EVH. One is deceased, but my personal opinions of both artists are extremely jaundiced. I find them both to be people I'd never choose to be friendly with. I don't know why you'd want to do that. As a musician, I'll add this: If you can't appreciate the entirety of the tune and the soulfulness of the music and the melody it's based on, you'll never play that solo well. Well...I'll certainly accept your critique of my playing and related skill set...however I refute your allegation that one must "appreciate" the music one is playing in order to play it properly. I love to play Pink Floyd. IMO Roger Waters was a real jerk from 1977 through 2008. I guess that means I'll never be able to play any Dave Gilmore solos from the "Animals" era through "The Final Cut". Oh well. So that's your "punishment." Les....now that my parents are both deceased, only my wife has the capacity to punish me. And I must admit it's fun sometimes.

    Les....Interpolated within your comments above, you will not find me saying that I obviously do like some Motown tunes. I tend to not prefer the entire genre...just not my cup of tea. However, some tunes are certainly enjoyable to me. And, that being said, I will never again hear the cheerfully pop "I was made to love her" by Stevie Wonder without automatically associating it with Harlan Ellison's "Shattered Like a Glass Goblin" which uses the tune as background music in a disturbing story that forever created a creepy and upsetting nexus between the two for me.

    Enough tangential prattle. Back to you guys who actually enjoy the genre.

  6. #26
    >>however I refute your allegation that one must "appreciate" the music one is playing in order to play it properly. I love to play Pink Floyd. IMO Roger Waters was a real jerk from 1977 through 2008.<<

    Truth is, if you don't appreciate - and by that I don't mean "like" - I mean *understand* the vibe, the rhythmic nuance, the melody, the song - you can't play it well. Nor do you have to like the whole genre; but to do it well, you really do need to understand what's going on, and the more experience you have with it as a listener and a player, the better you can play it. Very simple, truly.

    You're also infusing the artist's personality problems into the music, which is a separate thing. The music is capable of being appreciated for what it is; music may be able to inspire emotion, but it is abstract. This is why you are able to like Pink Floyd's music without liking Roger Waters. The personality of the player isn't the key to unlocking the music. You can be as crazy as a bedbug, or have intractable issues, but still write some awesome music, write some good books, or paint some wonderful paintings, etc. See, e.g., Van Gogh, Hemingway.

    The more one understands, the more ideas one can apply to the playing (especially instinctively - something that takes time spent with the music), the better one plays.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 01-13-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845
    -Bob

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    OK, fine. We're having a discussion, defined as:

    "discussion |disˈkəSHən|
    noun
    the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas: the proposals are not a blueprint but ideas for discussion | the specific content of the legislation was under discussion .
    • a conversation or debate about a certain topic: discussions about environmental improvement programs.
    • a detailed treatment of a particular topic in speech or writing."

    This involves some back and forth exchange of ideas, not just one liners, expressing an opinion, and then going away with nothing more to say. That ain't a discussion. This is.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 01-13-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845
    Les....I'm not trying to be a douche.

    you are right Michael Jackson wrote the song....it's his. EVH contributed some brilliant playing through his interpretation of what MJ was trying to do. Bennett only cares about the guitar part because well..he plays guitar and he recognizes something special in the playing. He does not identify with the music beyond that according to him. This is to me where it should end so everyone can go about talking about Motown influences....instead the Doc took your retort as an attack on his playing...which I dont think thats how you intended it...yadda yadda.
    The two of you waste tremendous energy attacking each other while Sergio attempted to keep the discussion on track. I threw out the line about Hendrix just to test the water and see if that would spark any conversation to bring everything back to the Motown discussion. West Coast Seattle Boy had some cool tracks that Hendrix played on that were Motownesqe....the Isley Brothers Testify for instance.

    its the fuggin Internet....if the two of you lived closer I'm sure you could go out and have a drink together and have a fun discussion. Hence I stand by my and will raise you a .....and just for Sergio I'll add a .


    as far as Internet land goes I luv ya both...so chill the Fug out!
    Last edited by Dirty Bob; 01-13-2013 at 05:26 PM.
    -Bob

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    The two of you waste tremendous energy attacking each other
    You're no douche!

    But a discussion isn't an attack. It's an expression of differing viewpoints in this case. I have no interest in attacking anyone. It's why I used the term, "disappointed" regarding Bennett's feeling that it's an EVH song, and not another term.

    Fact is, Bennett and I communicate about lots of stuff offline, and we're friends (I think). My friends and I often have discussions in which we disagree, and it's cool, no one gets upset. Why should it be any different on what is supposed to be a "discussion forum?"

    I figure this isn't Fox news, we don't all have to shout. But it does make sense (to me) that we engage freely in discussion. I honestly don't see that as a waste of energy. In fact, that's what energy is for!
    Last edited by LSchefman; 01-13-2013 at 05:17 PM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845



    although I do believe this is before they signed with Motown...
    -Bob

  12. #32
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845
    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    But a discussion isn't an attack. It's an expression of differing viewpoints in this case.

    Fact is, Bennett and I communicate about lots of stuff offline, and we're friends (I think). My friends and I have discussions in which we disagree, and it's cool, no one gets upset. Why should it be any different on a "discussion forum?"
    Maybe I personally found it upsetting because I respect you both and it was obvious you two weren't seeing eye to eye and I attempted to diffuse it.


    that and Sergio tried to spin some Marvin Gaye and it was fuggin up the vibe!
    -Bob

  13. #33
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845


    sergio...This one is for you!
    -Bob

  14. #34
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Downers Grove Il.
    Posts
    6,178
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    .....and just for Sergio I'll add a .


    Thank you for getting us back on track.

  15. #35
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Downers Grove Il.
    Posts
    6,178
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post


    sergio...This one is for you!
    Thanks Bob, I see you Rick James and raise you the Mary Jane Girls.



  16. #36
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845
    That's unbelievable! I don't think I can top that!
    -Bob

  17. #37
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845


    Joystick! Check out those moves!
    -Bob

  18. #38
    Bob encouraged me to post again in this thread. Admittedly, I can be a very stubborn person. So I'd like to give a little more background, while at the same time apologize to anyone who was or is offended:

    Motown was HUGE when I was in high school. It was a symbol of progress for my generation in Detroit in the way kids of different races began to relate to each other. Everyone was proud of Motown music. We were excited about it. In a big way, the music was a bridge for understanding at a time when big changes were occurring all over America. Yes, that sounds corny, but there you are. It was especially important in the magnet school I attended in Downtown Detroit, that had 4500 kids from all over the city, from all backgrounds, and had been the high school of some of the Motown stars.

    We formed integrated bands to perform both Motown music and other rock music. We started integrated clubs, and the clubs had dances that were fun and successful. It felt wonderful that everyone was closer; we'd be beaming with mutual admiration after a gig. Yeah, that sounds corny now, too, but it meant something in the 60s.

    If you haven't done it, you have no idea how much fun it is to perform with a horn section and a real vocal group, as opposed to one rock singer - it's a gas! In college, the bands who played all over campus did a lot of Motown. I was in another band in college with horns; and the band was also a coming together of kids from different races and backgrounds. We had TONS of fun. It was a big part of my history as a musician. I believe that playing the music helped me develop as a musician and as a human being. That reads pretty corny, too. I suppose it is, but it means something important to me. YMMV.

    I try to be open-minded when I listen to music. I get frustrated when I think that others aren't. But everyone's clearly entitled to their opinion when it comes to what they like and relate to, and what they don't.

    Every so often, I'm asked to do something for an ad in that style of music; clients are sometimes surprised that I can arrange a vocal group, horns, etc., that sound authentic. I just smile.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 01-14-2013 at 12:46 PM.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Confusion (NY)
    Posts
    1,845
    Great post! Thanks Les.
    -Bob

  20. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,500
    Les...being your age, and living where you live, was kinda like me growing up near Greenwich Village in NYC as the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, NY Dolls, David Johannsen....not to mention the forerunners Lou Reed, Velvet Underground and the entire CBGB, Mud Club and burgeoning Punk Scene exploded into the New York Village and Soho scene.

    I can see why you are so passionate about this era and the related music. Kinda like why I am so passionate about the "3-chord progressions" that became Punk, and the "New Wave".

    I think you just gotta be a bit more tolerant of those who don't share your musical preferences. You didn't mean to be offensive, but some of your comments can be perceived as overly critical when you write with the aforementioned passion. I see you've edited a lot of your comments. You've softened them up considerably. But, for example, when you describe one's comments as "insult to others' intelligence" you are making that jump from "criticism" to "personal attack"...at least it appeared that way. And then, the resulting debate takes away from the original topic of the thread.

    No harm, no foul and as we've already established, everyone has the right to their own taste and their own opinion. I respect the fact that you feel so strongly about your music.
    Last edited by docbennett; 01-14-2013 at 01:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •