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Thread: Pernambuco vs. Chaltecoco Pernambuco

  1. #101
    Cream Crackered Mikegarveyblues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugerpc View Post
    Not only that - this entire discussion ruined a perfectly enjoyable story thread elsewhere on the forum before it hardly got off the ground.
    Ahhh... The penny drops... Was looking forward to joining in with that one.

    Although... This is fun too.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! View Post
    ]
    Side note:
    Remember when Pernambuco was the new "it" wood? I do. There was a Modern Eagle (PS 1638) made with a Pernambuco neck a few years back. It sat at Chuck Levins for quite a while before it finally sold. I loved the top and the color but couldn't deal with that weird orange neck with a long funny name. Man, I sure wish I had that ME now. I am certain I'm not the only one to ask Brian Meader for the owner's contact info so I could offer to buy it.

    Live an learn.

    I came SOOOO close to buying that guitar when it was new... ...wish I had...

  3. #103
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
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    Kinglsey....Ken makes some absolutely amazing guitars! I've been drooling over them recently. Hey if that collection isn't getting enough love you could always send it over to me!!!


    You make an extremely valid point about the economic potential of a blank. Which again gets me wondering...what do they go for wholesale?
    -Bob

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by kingsleyd View Post
    As it happens, the wood used for the back and sides of that guitar came from a beam that was originally part of an R.J. Reynolds tobacco-drying barn built in the mid 1800s in Lexington, KY.
    It's interesting, though; KP says to you he's not interested in unobtainium wood, but then makes sure you know that his special piece of poplar comes from a 150 year old barn from Kentucky blah blah.

    If that ain't a "special" piece of wood, well...let's just say there's some irony in the explanation.

    I really like Kimock; he's a very nice guy. Don't know KP. I'm sure he's a smart fellow.

  5. #105
    408 Sig Club President Twinfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    It's interesting, though; KP says to you he's not interested in unobtainium wood, but then makes sure you know that his special piece of poplar comes from a 150 year old barn from Kentucky blah blah.
    I must admit, that made me chuckle too!

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Twinfan View Post
    I must admit, that made me chuckle too!
    The world is full of contradictions.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    Kinglsey....Ken makes some absolutely amazing guitars! I've been drooling over them recently. Hey if that collection isn't getting enough love you could always send it over to me!!!


    You make an extremely valid point about the economic potential of a blank. Which again gets me wondering...what do they go for wholesale?
    The reason they use branches on the violin bows is because they can make use of the natural springiness of the branch.

    The trunk wood used in a guitar neck has different properties, and probably wouldn't make as good a bow.

    And incidentally, most people do not pay a tenth of $35,000 for a pernie bow.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    The reason they use branches on the violin bows is because they can make use of the natural springiness of the branch.

    The trunk wood used in a guitar neck has different properties, and probably wouldn't make as good a bow.

    And incidentally, most people do not pay a tenth of $35,000 for a pernie bow.
    I spent a little time online this morning just looking around to get a feel for cost...from the little I could see it's all over the place....and this also goes for the bow blanks (which were fractions of what some bows were selling for)...it seems that there is debate also whether or not many of the suppliers' stock is in fact legitimate...I am sure the experts in the know have their direct connections and don't putter around on the internet for price comparisons,etc.......I came to the conclusion for me personally I could give a rat's ass whether or not it's made from petrified dinosaur excrement or deck planks...as long as it sounds good...to me its about how the luthier crafts the instrument...its the sum of the parts and the end result that matters to me...everyone is entitled to their opinion and their own personal keys to satisfaction...mine has always been about chasing the most toneful instrument I can get my hands on. I look at the dollars I spend paying for the artistry and the craft...and I guess ultimately the judgement of the luthier as to what wood works the best and what doesnt for a particular instrument. (That being said I have guitars with Brazzy necks and boards....and odd wood combinations because I like to see what different combinations sound like for myself...but its about the sound more so than what its made from). I really dig Black Limba these days...or rather a guitar made from it crafted by a luthier...obviously because I can't play a hunk of wood itself!
    Last edited by Dirty Bob; 02-22-2013 at 11:35 AM.
    -Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    It's interesting, though; KP says to you he's not interested in unobtainium wood, but then makes sure you know that his special piece of poplar comes from a 150 year old barn from Kentucky blah blah.

    If that ain't a "special" piece of wood, well...let's just say there's some irony in the explanation.

    I really like Kimock; he's a very nice guy. Don't know KP. I'm sure he's a smart fellow.
    Actually I saw it when it was still a big hunk of what used to be a beam from a barn. It came in while I wasn't officially a "client" -- at the time, I was just a friend and, actually, a bit of a "test mule" inasmuch as my NH residence was about an hour's drive from KP's shop and he would call and ask me to come down and play a guitar he'd finished so he could hear how it sounded. Or, a couple of times, to test drive some new brand of strings that he was considering. Ken had messed with a couple of slabs from another beam from the same barn and was all excited because they aced his set of tests he has for whether a piece of wood will make a "good" guitar by his standards. So he bought this beam.

    To be honest, while I loved the Kentucky connection as well as the fact that the wood is green -- the color green, not "unseasoned" -- I was skeptical. (Poplar? really?) Until he built one guitar from it for another client. I played that alongside a couple from more traditional woods (maple and mahogany) and strongly gravitated to the poplar one out of those three.

    So: no irony involved. At least inasmuch as there was no salesmanship going on.

    Ken and Kimock are cut from the same cloth. Highly intelligent. Very direct, no BS. Always call something what it really is. Very little tolerance for the kind of wishful/fantasy/delusional thinking that permeates the guitar world. Both are hard-core scientists in their thought patterns.

    And both are delightful people who make my world a much better place as a result of my friendship with them.
    Last edited by kingsleyd; 02-22-2013 at 11:32 AM.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
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    Must be pretty cool to hang with Ken Parker like that!
    -Bob

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyMoonsRJT View Post
    .I came to the conclusion for me personally I could give a rat's ass whether or not it's made from petrified dinosaur excrement or deck planks...as long as it sounds good...to me its about how the luthier crafts the instrument...its the sum of the parts and the end result that matters to me..
    That's my take-away as well. It's about the instrument, how it's crafted, how the bits and parts and pieces are selected and put together that makes it "art".

    And not so much about the magical stuff like whether it was sourced from the bottom of Loch Ness.

    Edit:

    What makes PRS guitars so good (in my opinion)? I believe it's not because Paul R. Smith personally crafts them; it's because Paul R. Smith trained others very well in his methods, created systems to reproduce what he does, and makes sure that his methods are followed. That is why each PRS feels like it comes from the master himself. It doesn't matter so much which person did what on the guitar; it's the complete package.

    He's a heck of a good mentor.

    I think I relate to this mentoring thing because I trained the young lawyers who joined my firm 20 years ago when I was still practicing.

    Also I realize this edit has nothing to do with the topic in the thread. LOL
    Last edited by LSchefman; 02-22-2013 at 12:07 PM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by kingsleyd View Post
    So: no irony involved. At least inasmuch as there was no salesmanship going on. .
    The salesmanship isn't the irony. It's that he was enthusiastic about a particular bunch of wood that was HIS find, while at the same time, pooh-poohing the idea of special wood that other builders use.

    It just kind of cracked me up.

    And it's so typical of an individualistic, creative guy.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    The world is full of contradictions.
    "No it t'isn't"

    "Yes it t'is"

    "No, it t'isn't"

    "Yes it t'is"

    "You can't just gainsay everything and call it a contradiction!"

    "Yes I can!"


  14. #114
    Vamanos Pest QueenCityGuitars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilerty View Post
    Caveat emptor
    I think this thread has created Caveat venditor, Bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Sound like a good name for a prog jazz fusion trio!!!!
    Is that like the Free Form Jazz Odyssey in Spinal Tap?!


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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    The salesmanship isn't the irony. It's that he was enthusiastic about a particular bunch of wood that was HIS find, while at the same time, pooh-poohing the idea of special wood that other builders use.

    It just kind of cracked me up.

    And it's so typical of an individualistic, creative guy.
    I can see having that reaction to the story as told, but I don't think with Ken it has anything to do with the "specialness" per se. That wood only happened because one of Ken's wood suppliers sent him a couple of already-cut pieces, saying, "I think you might be interested in this." It was only after Ken did his testing routine with it that he started to think "hey, this might make a really good guitar!" Even then, he was quite aware that it wouldn't be an easy sell to his client base since the only reputation poplar has in the guitar universe is as a cheap substitute for alder in F-style bolt-on solidbody guitars.

    And I don't think Ken automatically pooh-poohs much of anything (well, he's pretty dismissive of the idea that the nut has any effect on the sound of a guitar, but that's a result of lots of experience and testing); in fact, he's quite fond of pernambuco himself and has used it for fingerboards and other wooden bits on several guitars. (his necks are a whole nother universe; that is one of the coolest things about the guitar but they aren't a solid hunk of wood, that's for sure) But rarity or exclusivity, in and of itself, is just kinda lost on Ken. For him, it's all about what works in the context of the whole package.

    And, bottom line: he was pretty impressed with the Collection guitar. One thing he didn't like, though: "Why did they cover up the pernambuco with that soot-rubbed finish? It's such a pretty color, it's a shame to make it all dark like that!" (he did however love the way the soot worked on the maple top)
    Last edited by kingsleyd; 02-22-2013 at 01:01 PM.

  16. #116
    DEEPER STRIATIONS markie's Avatar
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    So, What is the verdict?


    Is this wood Chaltecoco or is it Pernambuco?




    Seems that we can all agree it is not both..........
    Fanboy of the Jester (AKA) James (Previously known as 11top)

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by markie View Post

    Is this wood Chaltecoco or is it Pernambuco?

    I assume by "this wood" you're referring to the wood used from prior to this news about using chaltecoco, i.e., the wood used on a bunch of our guitars that was described as "pernambuco." Correct? I would be curious to know as well, not so much because I have any particular issue with how it was sold to me, but because I simply like to know what's in my stuff.

  18. #118
    408 Sig Club President Twinfan's Avatar
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    All Collection VI/PS Paul's Guitars and anything in the future badged as "chaltecoco pernambuco" are in fact made from just "chaltecoco". This has been confirmed by Shawn here on the forum, and in an email I received from PRS Customer Services.

    I'm assuming that all "pernambuco" badged guitars prior to Collection VI instruments were made from actual pernambuco. I seem to recall there was one tree that Paul acquired which was set to provide around 100 neck blanks. It looks like those 100 have now been made into instruments. I would very much like PRS to confirm this is the case.
    Last edited by Twinfan; 02-22-2013 at 02:17 PM.

  19. #119
    Recovering Bass Player ]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! 's Avatar
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    I had a meeting with Jack, Paul, and Judy a little over an hour ago. To the best of my ability, I presented your concerns as well as my own. Yes, I am a PRS fanboi but I pulled no punches. Doing so would serve no one. It wasn't fun but I have to believe it was worth it.

    All points were discussed in great detail and I feel certain that PRS leadership understands the issue. They WANTED to understand the issue and listened carefully. Paul and Jack made some compelling points I had not considered but they also did a good job of trying to understand alternate opinions. That is more than I could have hoped to accomplish.

    What they do with the information (from here on out) is not my business nor is it my responsibility to relay. I am not a compensated representative of the company. As such, I will subtract myself from the middle position and leave all responses (along with questions they might generate) to them.

    I have no visibility into what they will say or when they will say it. I can can only assure you that I get the impression they care very deeply about getting this right - for personal and professional reasons. No man wants to live a life where his integrity is in question. I sincerely hope their response, whenever that may come, set's a course for new possibilities and a renewed sense faith.
    Last edited by ]-[ @ n $ 0 |v| a T ! ; 02-22-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinfan View Post
    All Collection VI/PS Paul's Guitars and anything in the future badged as "chaltecoco pernambuco" are in fact made from just "chaltecoco". This has been confirmed by Shawn here on the forum, and in an email I received from PRS Customer Services.

    I'm assuming that all "pernambuco" badged guitars prior to Collection VI instruments were made from actual pernambuco. I seem to recall there was one tree that Paul acquired which was set to provide around 100 neck blanks. It looks like those 100 have now been made into instruments. I would very much like PRS to confirm this is the case.

    My question is how can they call it pernambuco at all? If that name is not used in the forestry or wood industries for Chaltecoco, isnt that flat out incorrect? I have searched the net as well and can find no connection. Can someone post a link to where it shows Chaltecoco being called Pernambuco?

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