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Thread: Fading Pernambuco??? Same wood, or different?

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  1. #1
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    Fading Pernambuco??? Same wood, or different?

    Here is my 2011 PS Santana, AKA "Serenity". The neck is Pernambcco. I wasn't concerned about the "wings" of the neck fading until I read about the recent and somewhat controversial "Pernambuco vs. Pernambuco/Chaltecoco" issue.

    I will show you how the wings of the heel have faded over the past two years. Not a major concern to me...unless the wings are fading due to a "different type of pernambuco" used to complete the headstock.

    While some of you might think that this is a private matter between PRS customer service and myself...I think that after the recent controversy....the entire forum needs reassurance (I know I do) that the "Old, genuine Pernambuco" was not compromised by an alternate wood when completing the headstock.

    Since I can't show my #3340 without including a glamor shot or two...here is "Serenity" almost 2 years later....and if anyone can comment on the fading...and if anyone representing the company would care to chime in.....are the "wings" made from the same wood that was used to make the entire neck??? If so, I am fine. If, however, a different type of wood was used to complete the headstock...then we might have an issue to resolve.

    I look forward to the anticipated reassurance. BTW..."Serenity" was the very first "Jade Glow" and the PS staining team and I created this color with my goal being a "green burst". I really think they nailed it.

    Full frontal nudity:






    Front of Headstock....Brazilian veneer, and nothing noticeable:



    Not to obvious from this angle:



    But a bit more apparent here:



    And here:



    Here is a shot of the entire neck, FWIW:




    Thoughts? Same wood? Different wood?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    Thoughts?
    That you're just itching to create problems and issues?

    Anyway, what does it matter? Do you think you're going to hear the tone suffer in any case?

    First it was the acoustic case mystery, solved by my suggestion (that proved true) that the case was replaced. You've already found out you have a real pernie neck on that thing. Now you're worried about the wood scraps they use to fill out the wings on every single PRS, that in your case are sitting behind a veneer? Are you kidding? You want to start a controversy over THAT? And two years AFTER you bought the guitar?

    If I were PRS, it'd be No Soup For You. LOL!!

    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    Same wood? Different wood?
    If you look at the upper right part of your headstock, I'd say it seems to be the same wood. Those particular scraps simply came from lower down or higher up on the neck blank, would be my guess.

    A study of the upper left of the headstock looks similar too. You're just looking at a different grain in the wood, at a different angle. Get out a piece of wood and look at it. The grains vary from place to place on the piece of wood. And when you stain it, that varies, too.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 03-02-2013 at 11:52 AM.

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    The reason I am concerned is not about acoustics. It's about finances. when you are spending a huge up-charge...and I mean HUGE up-charge for the PB....you want it to be PB and not ersatz. I am sure that the company will provide reassurance, and this is not to be controversial but to assume that for everyone who posts a question there are probably a lot of people who have the same question but would be reluctant to post. If the moderators think this should be deleted and kept private, please do so.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by docbennett View Post
    The reason I am concerned is not about acoustics. It's about finances. when you are spending a huge up-charge...and I mean HUGE up-charge for the PB....you want it to be PB and not ersatz. I am sure that the company will provide reassurance, and this is not to be controversial but to assume that for everyone who posts a question there are probably a lot of people who have the same question but would be reluctant to post. If the moderators think this should be deleted and kept private, please do so.
    Except that you obviously got PB for the neck. So that isn't an issue. You're worried about the little wing ends. Not the neck.

    Do you buy things just to obsess over the minutiae of conspiracy theories or what?

    I'd have refrained from commenting, honestly, but you ASKED for comments.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 03-02-2013 at 12:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Except that you obviously got PB for the neck. So that isn't an issue. You're worried about the little wing ends. Not the neck.

    Do you buy things just to obsess over the minutiae of conspiracy theories or what?
    Les, we all get that you don't care about this sort of thing. Congratulations. I'll buy you a cookie. You can not care all you want but perhaps you can understand that someone who dropped the kind of coin it takes to buy a PS with a pernambuco neck might be concerned that the whole neck is not pernambuco given the recent debacle and the visual discrepancy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    I'd have refrained from commenting, honestly, but you ASKED for comments.
    When he asked for comments it was VERY OBVIOUS that he was asking about the woods. What he wasn't asking for is your opinion on whether this should matter to him or not.
    You're never too old for tater tots.

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    Senior Member themike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippietim View Post
    Les, we all get that you don't care about this sort of thing. Congratulations. I'll buy you a cookie. You can not care all you want but perhaps you can understand that someone who dropped the kind of coin it takes to buy a PS with a pernambuco neck might be concerned that the whole neck is not pernambuco given the recent debacle and the visual discrepancy.

    When he asked for comments it was VERY OBVIOUS that he was asking about the woods. What he wasn't asking for is your opinion on whether this should matter to him or not.
    I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

    Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by themike View Post
    I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

    Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.
    First of all, to be clear...that wasn't me in the "impact thread"...I may have commented..but I didn't initiate anything. As a matter of fact, that was the thread that motivated me to post this one.

    As far as the post I am quoting...First...."Thanks Mike" for the initial complement...and let me try to explain my "ulterior" motivations. As Tim has said above...the reason for the forum post (which I had misgivings about shortly after, but which I could not delete since I am unable to delete an OP as I have conveyed to the moderators previously) was to try to bring this issue up and see if any others had my concerns or had a similar experience. I quickly "re-thought" my approach, and in retrospect, the pros of adding to forum knowledge was outweighed by the cons of washing dirty laundry in public.

    However, in the final analysis....I felt "OK" with the public disclosure since I felt it was important to the forum especially based on the prior controversy surrounding the wood used and advertised in some of the builds.

    Overall, (and if you have followed my posts, you know this about me) even if it turned out that the "ears" were made of some crappy substitute...I am certain that we would have been able to work out a mutually acceptable resolution between PRS the company, and myself.

    In the final analysis, the positive resolution is another way of demonstrating that PRS is on top of these type of issues and is intereted in ensuring customer satisfaction. After all...I would NOT have ordered another PS if I wasn't comfortable with the whole process after all is said and done.

    I am not an intentional gadfly. I try to be as objective as possible, but I will NOT be a corporate apologist...when I see something wrong...I will disclose it...and I am sure that many people find my comments and views to be totally obnoxious. But, that is why the forum allows you to "ignore" those people that you don't want to interact with. I am hopefull that this thread not only provided some decent information to the "rank and file" but I also tried to interject some of my lame attempts at humor to take some of the "seriousness" out of the whole thread.

    If I offended anyone, I apologize. For that matter, if anyone learned anything of significance, that makes the whole thing worthwhile.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by themike View Post
    I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

    Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.
    I'm with you Mike. I didn't post in the impact damage thread or the other perny thread at all and not in this one until now. When people have a question that only the company can answer, I just don't see why they ask people who are not involved before they have exhausted all their options with the company first.

    If someone has an issue and it comes to a dead end or is unresolved with no further action forthcoming from the company, or it is resolved satisfactorly, then perhaps it is time post about it. Threads about problems, both resolved and unresolved, do educate us. But to hold the company's feet to the fire publicly while a matter is still unresolved and could go either way is just not the way to go.

    This is just my opinion, but I think these things should be taken up privately. A thread about the final outcome would the hinge on how happy a person is or how disappointed.

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    Last edited by rugerpc; 03-06-2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason: typos, as usual...
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    Quote Originally Posted by themike View Post
    I like Doc so don't misconstrude this but I am throwing it out there that on the same token, I don't understand why people would post a thread on messageboards hoping for a slew of unofficial answers when they can contact PRS or their dealer directly and get a precise answer in a more timely fashion - especially when he apparently has a PS in the oven right now hahah

    Same thing goes for the PTC impact repair thread a few days ago - get your answers and THEN post a thread.
    I don't disagree with you. All of that is orothogonal to the point I was making. I simply don't understand why Les has to hammer home the point all the time that we shouldn't care about this sort of thing.
    You're never too old for tater tots.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hippietim View Post
    Les, we all get that you don't care about this sort of thing. Congratulations. I'll buy you a cookie. You can not care all you want but perhaps you can understand that someone who dropped the kind of coin it takes to buy a PS with a pernambuco neck might be concerned that the whole neck is not pernambuco given the recent debacle and the visual discrepancy.



    When he asked for comments it was VERY OBVIOUS that he was asking about the woods. What he wasn't asking for is your opinion on whether this should matter to him or not.
    Tim, I'll take the cookie.

    First, Bennett and I are good friends, and he knows that I'm just giving him a hard time the way friends tease each other in real life. What doesn't come across on the internet is tone of voice, etc. Bennett is a great guy and he knows I like him. He puts up with me.

    As to my feelings about the recent debacle, that is well known and I am aware that you and others who hang here and on VR are annoyed with me. I can live with that. My opinions don't come as the result of trying to win a popularity contest. They are what they are.

    Finally, I did respond about the woods by suggesting very early in this thread that this particular stuff on the ears of the headstock simply came from a different part of the pernie lumber. Here is my response, copied and pasted from my VERY FIRST post on this thread:

    "If you look at the upper right part of your headstock, I'd say it seems to be the same wood. Those particular scraps simply came from lower down or higher up on the neck blank, would be my guess."

    AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. PRS has now confirmed it.

    Sometimes the most obvious, logical answer is the correct one.

    Since the most logical answer was the FIRST one I gave on this thread, and since that answer proved to be FACT, and not a bunch of uneducated guesses about some kind of headstock ears conspiracy, perhaps I earned that cookie.

    By the way, the tin foil hat looks nice on you.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 03-06-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Tim, I'll take the cookie.
    Duck.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    First, Bennett and I are good friends, and he knows that I'm just giving him a hard time the way friends tease each other in real life. What doesn't come across on the internet is tone of voice, etc. Bennett is a great guy and he knows I like him. He puts up with me.
    Another cookie.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    As to my feelings about the recent debacle, that is well known and I am aware that you and others who hang here and on VR are annoyed with me. I can live with that. My opinions don't come as the result of trying to win a popularity contest. They are what they are.
    I'm not annoyed at you for your opinion. It's when you get dismissive of the concerns of others. You don't care about <insert recent debacle topic here> ? Fine. Obviously some others do. But you feel the need to tell us over and over how we shouldn't care about those things - basically because you don't think they matter. When someone drops a few thousand dollars on a guitar (or a LOT more for a private stock), it is not unreasonable for people to know what they're getting and expect it to be as it was represented.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Finally, I did respond about the woods by suggesting very early in this thread that this particular stuff on the ears of the headstock simply came from a different part of the pernie lumber. Here is my response, copied and pasted from my VERY FIRST post on this thread:

    "If you look at the upper right part of your headstock, I'd say it seems to be the same wood. Those particular scraps simply came from lower down or higher up on the neck blank, would be my guess."
    Well your first few remarks in the thread were anything but relevant. You've added much more snark and dismissive commentary to this and other threads like this than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. PRS has now confirmed it.

    Sometimes the most obvious, logical answer is the correct one.

    Since the most logical answer was the FIRST one I gave on this thread, and since that answer proved to be FACT, and not a bunch of uneducated guesses about some kind of headstock ears conspiracy, perhaps I earned that cookie.
    You've earned a bucket of tossed cookies.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    By the way, the tin foil hat looks nice on you.
    Not me Les. I'm not much for conspiracies.
    You're never too old for tater tots.

  12. #12
    chief Shawn@PRS's Avatar
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    You should have a spec sheet documenting the woods used to build the guitar. If you need reassurance, I'd suggest contacting your dealer who will contact Private Stock. I'm pretty sure no one from PS is a member here and they don't have the ability to chime in.

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    Thanks Shawn...please delete this thread. thanks very much.

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    FWIW, I've seen plenty of solid BRW necks on ME 1's, etc., with 'wings' that look the same way.....as though they were from a different rosewood altogether, but I've been assured by various 'powers that be' over the years that they are indeed BRW. I'm sure that's the case with your perny neck as well.

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    chief Shawn@PRS's Avatar
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    It's up to you to delete

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    Senior Member Steph's Avatar
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    BTW, awesome Santana! Love the green... and the quilt is stunning...
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    Send the guitar to me! Problem solved! That is a looker doc...always liked it.
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    Its absolutely 1000% PERN.


    I wanna see the BENNETT VS CHEF hot-tub BATTLE ROYALE !!

    UNCLE B will bring the steaks ;-))

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    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGSCAN View Post
    Its absolutely 1000% PERN.


    I wanna see the BENNETT VS CHEF hot-tub BATTLE ROYALE !!

    UNCLE B will bring the steaks ;-))
    He he he....
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    I'll keep the thread...it seems to have a happy ending.

    However...I've already posted this once before...I CAN'T DELETE AN OP!!

    Can others?? I can delete subsequent posts, but I am unable to delete an OP. If I try to edit, the "delete" button is not there.

    Les....if you buy a diamond ring, with a 2 carat center stone, and 4 baguettes of only 33 points (1/3 carat) each making up the surround of the setting. then, you find out that 1 of those baguettes is actually a CZ. No problem according to your logic, no? After all...3.0 of the total 3.33 carat weight is genuine...and no one cares about anything but the center stone anyway.

    And you wrote this...

    "Except that you obviously got PB for the neck. So that isn't an issue. You're worried about the little wing ends. Not the neck."

    You mean that those wing ends are NOT part of the neck? I am now very confused. What are they part of, the body??
    Last edited by docbennett; 03-02-2013 at 12:18 PM.

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