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Thread: Versatility of the 513

  1. #1
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    Versatility of the 513

    I recently picked up a ribbon mic and have been trying to figure out how to optimally use it. I haven't been using my 513 very much lately, mainly because I have a bunch of options, and the 513 was on the bottom of the case pile for a while.

    Anyway, I've been interested in seeng how the ribbon mic compares with an SM57, and pulled out the 513 just so that I could conveniently switch between several different tones. Man, that guitar not only covers everything, it's simply outanding at everything. As a gigging guitar, there really isn't anything more than any sane person could ever want (unfortunately, I'm not entirely sane....but that's a story for another time...)

    The clip below is about as exciting as watching paint dry because each clip is repeated 3 times (the original purpose of the clip was to sort out the mic differences...) but it does show how versatile the guitar is. It also shows how much the mic makes a difference in recorded tone. I only played each clip once, recorded by the ribbon mic and the SM57 simultaneously. No other eq or processing post recording (the third version of each segment is just an equal mix of the two mics.)





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    NIce guitar. I think the DGT is more versatile, however.
    SC245s

  3. #3
    DEEPER STRIATIONS markie's Avatar
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    Prolly the most versatile Guitar on the Planet!


    Oh, Your tone was great as well.........
    Fanboy of the Jester (AKA) James (Previously known as 11top)

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    513 and a Tone King is a really good combo. It really brings out the shimmer of the 513. I play mine with a Tone King Meteor II when I play tube amps.

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    Thanks guys...and you ought to know Froggie! I always keep an eye out for posts with pics of your 513 collection...

    Quote Originally Posted by rickcard71 View Post
    NIce guitar. I think the DGT is more versatile, however.
    You know...it's funny. I find myself gigging the DGT (though mine's actually a DG stop tail...) much more often than the 513. And I'm not sure why. I don't actually think (personally) that the DGT is more flexible, not by a long shot. Ironically, the DGT is the one guitar the the 513 doesn't really cover, especially the single coil tones, and maybe it's that uniqueness that I dig. In any case though, while others may have some other favorite, it's hard to argue that you'd ever need anything more than a 513.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    I recently picked up a ribbon mic and have been trying to figure out how to optimally use it.
    I can't tell much from your pic, as the perspective isn't readily apparent. But do have some tips on recording guitar amps with ribbons. Here's a pic of my ribbon recording setup:



    The mic is about 6 inches from the speaker grill, centered at the same height as the speaker's dust cap. The top of the mic is tilted toward the cab. Tilting a ribbon mic helps to protect the ribbon from any particularly loud blasts coming from the cab (remember, ribbons are more fragile than dynamics or condensers). The mic I pictured is a Royer R-121, which is my favorite ribbon on a guitar cab.

    With a ribbon, one thing to keep in mind is that you can take advantage of their sensitivity to proximity effect. A close placement like the one in my picture gives you a very hefty sound that works on its own, and also blends nicely with a 57. You definitely get more chunk that way. Further back, you get more room, but remember that a ribbon is a figure-8 pattern, so it's hearing plenty of room anyway,

    I put a 57 right up on the speaker grille cloth, just off center, but that's a matter of taste of course. I like the 57's diaphragm to be overdriven a little for that typical "57 sound." Yours is set up more distant than I'd do it, though again, it's hard to tell from the camera angle in your pic. It appears to be further back and low on the speaker.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

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    Thanks for the tip Les,

    I had a reason for work to compare a bunch of different mic's, and the Royer is certainly wonderful. With pre-amp, it's a pretty pricey beast though. I didn't do a comparison clip with it (was using the 122) and some of the others, but to my pedestrian ear, I actually liked the SE Voodoo VR2 better.

    In any case, I'm a complete noob with this stuff (in the music realm anyway.) For the recording, the mics were placed about 18" from the speaker. I tended to like the ribbon mics placed around that distance, and for whatever reason thought that it would be more of an "apples to apples" comparison if I had the SM57 sitting right next to it. Also, I find that the SM57 is too "percussive" for lack of a better word when it's close mic'd. Oddly, I thought that the SM58 actually sounded better than the 57.

    In any case, the 513 is now on the top of the pile and will get gigged again.

  8. #8
    Hi. I'm naked. Aldwyn's Avatar
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    My 513 BRW is the main reason I have my 305 Prototype up for sale! It covers those bases and then some. Awesome guitar, all around. It helps that I have a Tone King Metro as well.

    Anyway, to the clip... Amazing how different two mics can sound on the same cab. I tend to usually use two mics, an SM57 and a AT4040 to get a nice balance (or sometimes, I just go with one or the other, depending on my mood... but at least I have the choice by listening to both and making a decision to axe one clip!).

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    Hi Aldwyn..... I agree that the Metropolitan is a great match with the 513. Mine is a BRW neck also, and I think that the warmth of that tames the aggressiveness of the Metro on the gain channel a bit. I find that a strat can be a bit "sharp" through it. Do you play yours out and about? I notice that you're a local...

  10. #10
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Cool video and some nice tones! The one thing that always stands out to me about your videos/photo/threads are the pictures of your home, it looks beautiful!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    Thanks for the tip Les,

    I had a reason for work to compare a bunch of different mic's, and the Royer is certainly wonderful. With pre-amp, it's a pretty pricey beast though. I didn't do a comparison clip with it (was using the 122) and some of the others, but to my pedestrian ear, I actually liked the SE Voodoo VR2 better.
    It's all a matter of preference, I make no claim that the R-121 is somehow better, I just like what it does; whatever works for the player is what works!

    I think at the distance you were recording, the 57 especially sounded a little harsh, and the SE wasn't as round as I'd expect a ribbon to be on a guitar cab, which is why I made the suggestion.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

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    Senior Member LJD's Avatar
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    NICE rig. PRS and Tone King, very Maryland! MD license plates should say "The Tone State".

    I've veered off close miking amps in studio situations. Lately I get a more "my ears" sound from using a large diaphragm mic set back 2 or 3 feet from the amp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiodeblanc View Post
    Cool video and some nice tones! The one thing that always stands out to me about your videos/photo/threads are the pictures of your home, it looks beautiful!
    Ha! It looks better in pictures than real life actually. It's a VERY old house.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    It's all a matter of preference, I make no claim that the R-121 is somehow better, I just like what it does; whatever works for the player is what works!

    I think at the distance you were recording, the 57 especially sounded a little harsh, and the SE wasn't as round as I'd expect a ribbon to be on a guitar cab, which is why I made the suggestion.
    Yeah, the 57 did sound harsh come to think of it. Definitely appreciate the advice. Of course, the weak link in this whole thing might be the cheapy Zoom R24 that I used to record this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by LJD View Post
    NICE rig. PRS and Tone King, very Maryland! MD license plates should say "The Tone State".

    I've veered off close miking amps in studio situations. Lately I get a more "my ears" sound from using a large diaphragm mic set back 2 or 3 feet from the amp.
    I've got a few diaphragm mics lying about for another application, so I'll check them out. No clue as to why Maryland would have more music related industry than it's size would suggest. Only thing I can think of is that it's always had a very thriving live local music scene across the range, which might tend to inspire.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    Of course, the weak link in this whole thing might be the cheapy Zoom R24 that I used to record this stuff.
    That's possible. It's not that it sounded bad, just a little harsh on the 57.

    But it also occurred to me that I tend to mic guitar cabs not so much to capture the sound in the room, but as part of a sound-shaping chain to get the instrument to sit in a mix in a certain way.

    This may not apply at ALL to what you're trying to accomplish, so take my advice with a grain o' salt!
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  15. #15
    it is the most versatile tool that i own.
    (DC 245 Ted / DGT / 513 / Santana / McShootout / Cu22 Rosewood / SAS / Cu22 Semi hollow / Sig LTD / Mira korina / HBII / SE Angelus Custom) >> {C, H, Dallas, Original Sewell}

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    Hi. I'm naked. Aldwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    Hi Aldwyn..... I agree that the Metropolitan is a great match with the 513. Mine is a BRW neck also, and I think that the warmth of that tames the aggressiveness of the Metro on the gain channel a bit. I find that a strat can be a bit "sharp" through it. Do you play yours out and about? I notice that you're a local...

    I used to play professionally, but I no longer play out, unfortunately. Maybe one day again, but for now, I am confined to what little time I can get in my little home studio.

    You?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldwyn View Post
    I used to play professionally, but I no longer play out, unfortunately. Maybe one day again, but for now, I am confined to what little time I can get in my little home studio.

    You?
    Cool... I notice that a few of the members here are Marylanders, and figured it'd be neat to to go out and see any of those who play out...

  18. #18
    Just one more... HighGain510's Avatar
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    Yep the 513 is a super-versatile axe, so many combinations and they're all tasty (plus even stuff like position 4 on single coil mode can sound different going from 10 down to 7-8 on the volume)! Still love mine!
    -Matt

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