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Thread: Size Matters (neck fatness discussion)

  1. #1

    Size Matters (neck fatness discussion)

    I have never met a Wide/Fat neck carve that I didn't like. Because of the crazy way I grip, the Wide/Thin and Regular carves are not suited for me. When the DGT carve came out, I was as surprised as I was confused by how well it fits my hand. But it's smaller and it shouldn't work. But it does. But it's so similar to the Regular carve. OK, it must be the shoulders.

    So, buy all the things with DGT or W/F carves. I can do that.

    Enter the Pattern carve family. As expected, the Pattern Thin and Pattern Regular carves are not the least bit comfortable. Some of the Pattern carves feel comfortable while others do not. Hmmm. At first I assumed it was just a matter of the fatness but after investing in a digital caliper the differences between the carves is very small. The 513 is my primary gigging guitar yet I can't play the P22 for long periods of time.

    Bottom line, can the hand really sense the difference of 1 or 2 64ths of an inch? Are the shoulders that much different on the Pattern carves? How much does the tactile surface of poly/nitro/V12 factor into comfort?

    Thoughts?
    (513 / P22 / McShootout / DC 245 Ted / DGT / DC22 / Santana / Cu22 Rosewood / 408 Rosewood / SAS / Cu22 Semi hollow / Sig LTD / Mira korina / HBII / SE Angelus Custom / SE Mushok) >> {Archon, C, H, Dallas, Original Sewell}

  2. #2
    Interesting topic!

    I think the hands are pretty sophisticated in their ability to sense very small differences, though this is a purely unscientific guess.

    After all, think about how we can tell .001 differences in strings. Go from .010 to .009, and the strings feel like rubber bands even when you're not bending. That's a thousandth of an inch!
    Last edited by LSchefman; 07-21-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member vchizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Interesting topic!

    I think the hands are pretty sophisticated in their ability to sense very small differences, though this is a purely unscientific guess.
    Very interesting. I always am amazed by the neck discussions, they just don't affect me that much. I have my preference of WF, Pattern, regular, then WT. But other than a "like the feeling of" thing, I don't feel in really affects whether I can play or not play. That said, I have several WF necks, and I can feel a tiny difference in "fatness" between all of them. I assume I'm feeling minute differences in the sanding process since all are CNC carved.... Yet still.."PRS aren't hand built anymore, they're all machine made!!!!"

    For me, fretboard radius is a much bigger issue in affecting my playing. Maybe it's just because I've only been playing PRS for the last 17 years and nothing else feels right anymore?

  4. #4
    Dibs on the 07 SAS!Lol
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by David Grantham View Post
    Dibs on the 07 SAS!Lol
    you wouldn't like it; it has a maple board
    (513 / P22 / McShootout / DC 245 Ted / DGT / DC22 / Santana / Cu22 Rosewood / 408 Rosewood / SAS / Cu22 Semi hollow / Sig LTD / Mira korina / HBII / SE Angelus Custom / SE Mushok) >> {Archon, C, H, Dallas, Original Sewell}

  6. #6
    Wheels cjmwrx's Avatar
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    I think it makes a huge difference. When I first started playing guitar (and for the 1st 3 years) I went after anything thin. My thinking was "all of that fast players I know use super thin necks". I went with this, and from time to time would have small flares (maybe) of CTS where my fingers would start to go numb after practicing scales for longer than 20 minutes or so. I would also get cramps easily between my thumb and fore finger when playing Barre cords.

    I picked up a beat up CE22 with a WF (I knew it when I bought it). But, it looked just like a grape sucker so I had to have it. While banging around on it at GC, I noticed my thumb was not cramping, and my single notes and triplets were smoother and more flowing. I directly attributed this to the neck. My next guitar was a 2003 Cu22 (#1 now) WF Royal Blue with a 10top. Weighs just a shade over 6lbs.

    The one thing I noticed immediately when playing a WF is that my fingers are in a much better position for with single notes with a full grip, or a thumb grip. I don't have to press my fingers "down" so far with a fatter neck, thus making the entire fretboard easier to navigate IMHO. Also, I can still use my thumb with relative ease, which was my concern with using a fatter neck in the first place.

    I also love a Fender soft V.

  7. #7
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Neck shapes never used to bother me before, aside from the WF that was on my CE (which the PTC fixed ) I've gotten along quite nicely with anything... maybe I'm evolving? (or just becoming more prissy)
    Last edited by sergiodeblanc; 07-21-2013 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Add the MORE prissy comment

  8. #8
    Junior Member Paul L's Avatar
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    Although I didn't have the opportunity to A/B both guitars side by side, and I'm relying solely on memory, the satin finish DGT neck on my 2010 CU22 Soapy seems to be noticeably smaller and faster (mainly due to the finish) than on previous CU22 Soapies that I've owned. My hands aren't huge, but I prefer a neck with a little meat on its bones, so I'm partial to W/F or regular necks. But this one feels particularly nice. The other one I remember fondly was the '04 McCarty with rosewood neck that I used to own (and am still kicking myself for selling). That was one of the nicest necks I'd ever put my hands on.

  9. #9
    Senior Member RedGuitars's Avatar
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    Very cool. I'd like to see the graph with a Santana added...
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    Senior Member gush's Avatar
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    My McCarty has WF that is my favorite.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuitars View Post
    Very cool. I'd like to see the graph with a Santana added...
    i could only measure what i have. dont you have a red one you could send me?
    (513 / P22 / McShootout / DC 245 Ted / DGT / DC22 / Santana / Cu22 Rosewood / 408 Rosewood / SAS / Cu22 Semi hollow / Sig LTD / Mira korina / HBII / SE Angelus Custom / SE Mushok) >> {Archon, C, H, Dallas, Original Sewell}

  12. #12
    Senior Member cosmic_ape's Avatar
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    I'd like to see PRS make make a neck carve in between their Wide Fat and a Gibson '59. That would be a hit!

  13. #13
    Opaque John Beef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Grantham View Post
    Dibs on the 07 SAS!Lol
    2nd dibs! Especially if it's a blade switcher. That's been on my GAS list for years.

    When I bought my Wide-Fat 05 Custom 22 in 2006, I was coming from a 1" thick Warmoth Fatback neck. The Wide Fat felt pretty tiny by comparison, but I have grown to love it. I had a new neck made for the Warmoth guitar, but this time by USA Custom Guitars, a .86 U carve 25" scale conversion neck with a 10" radius. The U carve adds just a bit more beef without a lot more thickness, it's now my all time favorite and the neck I will send PRS to copy whenever I win the lottery and have a Private Stock made.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by John Beef View Post
    2nd dibs! Especially if it's a blade switcher. That's been on my GAS list for years.
    john, it does indeed have the blade, which i too prefer. you're third behind Ed Miller and David Grantham.
    (513 / P22 / McShootout / DC 245 Ted / DGT / DC22 / Santana / Cu22 Rosewood / 408 Rosewood / SAS / Cu22 Semi hollow / Sig LTD / Mira korina / HBII / SE Angelus Custom / SE Mushok) >> {Archon, C, H, Dallas, Original Sewell}

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjmwrx View Post
    I think it makes a huge difference. When I first started playing guitar (and for the 1st 3 years) I went after anything thin. My thinking was "all of that fast players I know use super thin necks". I went with this, and from time to time would have small flares (maybe) of CTS where my fingers would start to go numb after practicing scales for longer than 20 minutes or so. I would also get cramps easily between my thumb and fore finger when playing Barre cords.

    I picked up a beat up CE22 with a WF (I knew it when I bought it). But, it looked just like a grape sucker so I had to have it. While banging around on it at GC, I noticed my thumb was not cramping, and my single notes and triplets were smoother and more flowing. I directly attributed this to the neck. My next guitar was a 2003 Cu22 (#1 now) WF Royal Blue with a 10top. Weighs just a shade over 6lbs.

    The one thing I noticed immediately when playing a WF is that my fingers are in a much better position for with single notes with a full grip, or a thumb grip. I don't have to press my fingers "down" so far with a fatter neck, thus making the entire fretboard easier to navigate IMHO. Also, I can still use my thumb with relative ease, which was my concern with using a fatter neck in the first place.

    I also love a Fender soft V.
    Me too! I've always been a WT person, but playing 6 string barre chords on WT necks make my hand cram too. I've tried a few PRSes with WF and the cram was gone. That's why I'm quite open to accept different neck sizes, as long as they're not classical guitar necks!

  16. #16
    Member Dan-d-1985's Avatar
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    For me, I'm much more at home on a W/T Pattern thin or Reg neck. The W/F or Pattern necks are just a little to much broad and deep at same time for me. I am actively trying to be less fussy with necks as it's cost me a number of times when I've been hunting for the dream SC. I got my New Mira with pattern Reg as the first PRSi with a non thin neck and i'm loving it. Maybe I just need to build up to the chunky monkey necks....
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  17. #17
    Love Boat Captain butterfly's Avatar
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    Interesting. Neck carves for me are a major component of "feel" in a guitar. My two PRSi in rotation now are a stripped 58 (Pattern) and a DC Ted (W/F). The Pattern feels thicker than the W/F although I believe that is not supposed to be the case.

  18. #18
    Junior Member Paul L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterfly View Post
    Interesting. Neck carves for me are a major component of "feel" in a guitar. My two PRSi in rotation now are a stripped 58 (Pattern) and a DC Ted (W/F). The Pattern feels thicker than the W/F although I believe that is not supposed to be the case.
    Do both necks have the same finish? That could be a factor.

  19. #19
    Love Boat Captain butterfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
    Do both necks have the same finish? That could be a factor.
    I don't think so. The Ted is from 2010 and would be nitro I guess. The stripped 58 is a late 2012 which is V12 which again I assume is on the neck. Interesting. It does show the smallest things are noticeable!

  20. #20
    Senior Member RedGuitars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watelessness View Post
    i could only measure what i have. dont you have a red one you could send me?
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