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Thread: Your input needed, guys and girls..

  1. #1
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    Your input needed, guys and girls..

    Hello

    I'm finding myself not really bonding with my CE-24, which I bought used. I don't exactly know what it is. Maybe it is just such a little shallow thing as it being used and I have never really felt it was MINE. Also, I never really connected with especially the HFS treble pickup. Either way, I'm sure someone else will enjoy it more, and I have decided that I should sell it and get a factory-fresh one.

    The only "productive" thing I use my guitars for is songwriting/recording in my home studio, apart from jamming and playing for my own enjoyment. I have a Les Paul Studio 50s tribute with humbuckers, which I am pretty happy with. Seeing as I already have that particular sound covered, I want something a bit different; something that can complement the Les Paul in a recording, but I would also like to have more tonal options, like good single-coil sounds.

    I play mostly riff-oriented rock stuff; probably not classic, but not particularly modern either, I don't think (I really have no idea what I'm doing ;-)). I would like to be able to play some nice blues as well, and be able to get good jazz and country tones as well. And harder rock to heavy metal. Boy, I'm not asking a lot, am I... There's probably even a couple of other genres I forget at this time......

    I know I should go to the store and try out all the PRS guitars I can lay my hands on. Already did that. There are none. Apparently, Denmark is a black spot on the PRS map... So I have to order over the internet. Thomann has a great return policy (30 days money back guarantee), so that's what I'll do. However, I still have to pay postage for a return, and I would rather just get the right one at the start ;-)

    This is were you guys come in :-)

    I have been looking at the 408 for a start, but recently the Studio has also caught my eye.

    Many people seem to think that the bridge pup in the Studio is mismatched, and don't like the look of the covered pup along with the uncovered ones. Neither of these "issues" concern me much, as that pup can be changed etc. if need be.

    Can any of you guys help me out and give me some direction and input? It would be greatly appreciated. Please ask if anything is unclear.

    As a thank you for reading, here is a pic of my CE24.




    It now strikes me that my first and only previous post here was to show off this same guitar. What a lousy track record I have here.....

    Greetings from Denmark

  2. #2
    Senior Member toothace's Avatar
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    408's are awesome…I love mine. If you aren't sold on the 408,pPerhaps a Brent Mason, to help with some of the between sounds? Just a thought… Happy shopping and good luck!

  3. #3
    Happy Egads's Avatar
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    Hey there. If you don't think you'll bond with it, I understand the thought of moving it. That said, I love that CE! Row it under your bed for six months and see how you feel then. I agree with you on the HFS and I felt the same way about the VB neck pickup. You can always try swapping them out for a start, too.

    As for looking at new models, the 408, Paul's, Brent Mason, and the 513 will get you a huge variety of sounds and some great single coil sounds. For all the ground you are looking to cover, those guitars could do it. My dad has a Studio and has since sold most of his Fender guitars (after owning and playing mostly Strats for 40+ years). It's a great and flexible guitar, but I think the others up above are much more versatile.

    You could also go the Hollowbody or Singlecut Hollowbody route, and add coil taps. The 57/08 pickups sound great when tapped (though not all 57/08s come with the three conductor wiring--I learned this the hard way with my SC HB).

    Good luck!

  4. #4
    Shoegazing Member Serious Poo's Avatar
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    408's can get cover a lot of ground and the single coil sounds are quite good. With the right amp you can make it sound like pretty much anything. The single coil bridge is Tele-like, the single coil neck is Strat-like, the humbucker neck is AWESOME sounding (clearer and silkier than my '58 RI Les Paul) , and the humbucker bridge simply sounds huge.

    I'm a big fan of these guitars, heck I own two of 'em.
    Be.
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  5. #5
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    Thanks for your input guys!

    I think I need to qualify my genre ramblings a bit, as one of my fears is that I will sacrifice great tone for versatility, which is not really the plan (and which may not be an issue with the suggestions so far, but still...)

    Lets say that the guitar "must" be able to cover rock, hard rock and blues. Metal would be a plus. The jazz would also be a plus, but lower in preference, as I would probably use the genre/tones as texture to rock songs, or at least play it kind of rock-oriented if that makes sense. Country is a genre I am not that much into, but it would be nice to have a guitar that could do well at this as well if it catches my fancy somewhere down the road.

    So, to sum up (why didn't I just do this at the beginning??)
    1) Rock, hard rock and blues
    2) Metal
    3) Jazz
    4) Country and other stuff?

    My general concern with all this is that I do not want a guitar that is "silver at all, gold at none" if you understand.

    I hope this clarifies my original post a bit (it was quite messily written, I realize - sorry for that :-))

    With regards to your other suggestions (thank you for them! :-)

    Brent Mason:
    I am a bit leary of this model, as I understand he is a country player (my least favorite genre of the ones listed). Does this model have better single coil sounds that the straight-up 408?
    It does seem to be cheaper, though.
    On the other hand, it doesn't have the stop-tail option, and I would really prefer one with this.
    Bolt-on maple neck I am a bit leary of as well, as I tend to like warmer sounds, and maybe a bit less snappy overall (snappy would be fine if it is tied to a pickup rather than an overall sound you couldn't get away from in any pickup - is this even possible??)

    Paul's guitar is a bit too expensive for me, I think :-)

    Hollowbodies - I like the idea, but I'm not there yet :-) Try to convince me if it is worth the effort ;-)

    The 513 has a longer neck, I see - how does this affect the tone? I would imagine it would be great for the (cleaner?) single coil sounds, maybe not so much bumbuckers? Playability-wise I think I would prefer the standard 25". It certainly looks interesting! However, this is may be the model I am most concerned with in regards to "being too versatile to do anything REALLY well"... It is also the most expensive one of the bunch here (barring Paul's guitar). Also, there's that tremolo...

    What are your thoughts about this? And again, thanks for your input (and for reading the second novel in the series "Michael's Guitar Conundrum"...


    P.S.: What about you, studio owners? Any more out there?

  6. #6
    Happy Egads's Avatar
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    If the trem is a killer, skip the BM and the 513. If it's not a killer, try to find one to play. My 513 is a total tonal monster. The extra 1/4" of scale length doesn't both me when switching back and forth, and it's a good blend of PRS and Fender. This guitar really does excel at most things.

    I don't own a 408 or Paul's, but they are on top of the list for now. I've played a 408 quite a bit and really love the pickups. My dad has a Studio and loves it. It has replaced Strats in his life. I like it, but don't love it, especially compared the the 513 and the Hollowbodies...

    Now, the hollows: I can't say enough about my SC HB II. It is by far my main guitar. Being fully hollow (unlike the center block on the doublecut hollowbodies), feedback could be an issue if you play really loud. I play loud, but not 100 watt stack loud. I love the ability to control the feedback in a musical way. I also have an SC HB Standard without piezo. Like the SC HB II, it has 57/08s. They are both monsters, and the Standard can be found used for a great price.

    I've seen used 513s and 408s in the $2400 range.

  7. #7
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    Well, the trem may not be a deal breaker - I could always block it, I guess. I played an SE with a stop tail some time ago, and thought it was a extremely comfortable hand rest :-) In any case, I will be getting a new guitar, not a used one. Not the wisest with regards to finances, but I think I need it to feel it really IS mine, as silly as that may be.

    I think the hollows are a bit out of my price limit, and from what I see there is no coil tapping on any of these?

    For anyone interested, these guitars are examples of "within the price range", from cheapest to most expensive (which is a factor, but not the biggest one - I could go with the more expensive option if it is the RIGHT guitar for me):

    Brent Mason:
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_brent_mason_aw_rw.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_brent_mason_mts_mn.htm

    Studio:
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_studio_...black_gold.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_studio_..._colour_10.htm (wonder what a custom color is)

    Special (never heard of these and not listed on the PRS products page? Only found them by searching on Thomann within price limits)
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_special...ge_natural.htm

    408:
    http://www.thomann.de/dk/prs_408_map...ange_tiger.htm

    513:
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_513_rw_gray_black.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/uk/prs_513_mt_...s_amethyst.htm

    Only the studio and special are 10tops (not the most important thing, but hey... :-))

    A couple of more specific questions:
    How convincing are the single coil pickups of the 408? I am probably looking for strat more than tele sounds.
    And how does the bridge pup sound in humbucker mode? I always found the HFS to be... I don't know... All aggression and no body? (I know the amp also has a lot to say here)

    Thanks again!! :-)


    BTW, from looking at all the demo videos on youtube etc, it seems I can't own a PRS without learning hybrid picking.... What is this? I didn't get the memo!!! :-)

  8. #8
    Name Manglin' Putz alantig's Avatar
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    The 408 singles are very good. It's a bit strange at first because they don't have the volume dropoff you may expect when you switch.

    Here's a clip that has 408 and 513 sound comparisons.

    https://soundcloud.com/alantig/408-v-513

    Some comments from the original post I did about this, just to let you know what's what.

    Here we go - I probably should have put comments on the track itself to make it easier for you, but I'm too tired today.

    So, this is how the track is set up - 408 first, 513 second, volume and tone both on 10. Everything is guitar directly into a PRS 2-channel C, no effects, PRS Big Mouth 2x12, recorded with an SM57 and a CAD ribbon mic straight into ProTools. Track volumes are approximately level, no adjustments or processing done in PT. The basic pattern is neck pickup, followed by bridge. On each pickup, I go back and forth between single-coil and humbucker - for the 513, it's single coil then both humbucker modes. Clean first, then dirty, and pretty much the same parts clean on each, then a different bit for the dirty sound. I think it's fairly easy to hear where the changes happen, but just in case (or if you want to jump around):

    408 Clean Neck Pickup - 0:00 Single coil; 0:13 Humbucker; 0:27 S; 0:37 HB
    408 Clean Bridge Pickup - 0:48 S; 0:55 HB; 1:03 S; 1:12 HB

    408 Dirty Neck Pickup - 1:26 S; 1:33 HB; 1:40 S; 1:47 HB
    408 Dirty Neck Pickup - 1:57 S; 2:03 HB; 2:10 S; 2:16 HB

    513 Clean Neck Pickup - 2:29 Single coil; 2:35 Clear Humbucker; 2:42 Heavy Humbucker; 2:49 S; 2:56 CH; 3:03 HH
    513 Clean Bridge Pickup - 3:15 S; 3:22 CH; 3:31 HH; 3:39 S; 3:47 CH; 3:56 HH

    513 Dirty Neck Pickup - 4:07 S; 4:13 CH; 4:20 HH; 4:26 S; 4:34 CH; 4:41 HH
    513 Dirty Bridge Pickup - 4:51 S; 4:58 CH; 5:05 HH; 5:12 S; 5:18 CH; 5:25 HH

    A few clams, but try to ignore them!
    I thought I used the 408 on at least one recording, and sure enough, I did, and coincidentally enough, I switched between single-coil and humbucker modes. So this will give you an idea in context.

    Here's the new version: http://soundcloud.com/alantig/waterm...-easter-hay-v2


    Faster tempo, less faithful guitar tones, less worked-out solo. Slightly different instrumentation. Still the Custom 22 Soapy on the rhythm guitar, but I went to the 408 for the melody and solo. The melody is the bridge pickup in single coil mode, with the sort of bridge section (the lower pitched part of the melody, bars 9-12 of the verse) the middle setting with the full humbucker neck pickup. That's on the clean channel of the two-channel C. The solo and the distorted chords at the end are the neck pickup in humbucker mode, lead channel of the C, although the chords at the end are EQ'd to thin the sound out a bit. I'd initially planned to do the guitar part all in one take, like a live performance, but ultimately went back to doing the solo and chords as a separate track.
    Hopefully, that will give you a little bit of an idea of some of what the 408 can do. Oh - it's a 408 with a trem, just FYI.
    Alan

    "I watched approximately 45 seconds of 'Rock Of Ages'. It was like getting punched in the soul." - Abby Krizner

  9. #9
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    I have a bunch of 513's, a Swamp Ash Studio, and a Sig LTD(i.e. 408). For all the things you want to play, I'd go with the 513 if it has to be in one guitar.

    As far as the single coil pick up sounds on the 408, I didn't find them particularly convincing. They were as good or better than the split coil sounds of other PRS I owned, I thought thought that they sounded more P90 than single coil though. The humbucker sounds are well different than a typical humbucker. They are more complex with a greater range of frequencies, because the magnetic fields are different than regular humbucker. Playing one of those is like playing electric guitar in high def.

    This is a 513 doing rock. Humbuckers are always 7 on the volume and 7 on the tone. That's its sweet spot.
    https://soundcloud.com/dancing-frog/...ck-for-just-to
    Last edited by Dancing Frog; 11-29-2013 at 01:59 PM.

  10. #10
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    Dammit... This is hard!!!

    Thanks for your replies and soundbites.

    I think I'm currently leaning more towards either the 513 or the studio. For some reason I keep coming back to the latter one. Which is a bit funny, since this has been the least discussed in this thread, haha! When I look at pictures and video demos etc it just seems to speak to me the most. I LOVE the features of the 408 and the 513 especially, but... Hmm... Tough to explain...

    Good thing I won't be buying anything before the new year.

    Take a listen to this demo of the studio, btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXhDSkdxvy8

    Any further replies are welcome too :-)

  11. #11
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    BTW, I read somewhere there is a significant tone difference between stop tail and term. Is this something any of you have experienced yourselves?

    If I decide tremolo is not a dealbreaker... drrooooool: http://www.thomann.de/gb/prs_studio_...erde_quilt.htm

  12. #12
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    If you're leaning toward the Studio, you really ought to consider the Swamp Ash Studio.

    http://youtu.be/rOeDUVUAP0I

    And, there is the 513 Swamp Ash...
    http://youtu.be/SeF8s9zO2OM
    Last edited by Dancing Frog; 11-29-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  13. #13
    Name Manglin' Putz alantig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_DK View Post
    I think I'm currently leaning more towards either the 513 or the studio. For some reason I keep coming back to the latter one. Which is a bit funny, since this has been the least discussed in this thread, haha! When I look at pictures and video demos etc it just seems to speak to me the most. I LOVE the features of the 408 and the 513 especially, but... Hmm... Tough to explain...
    No need to explain - many of us have been there. You want what you want, and for just about every guitar, there's *something* that puts it over the edge. The heart wants what the heart wants.

    What's tough is doing it without getting your hands on one. If you buy something else while you're not sure, that Studio may always be in the back of your mind. I don't envy you - I went through this with amps that I actually played.

    You're going to end up with something good, though - you're picking from the top shelf!
    Alan

    "I watched approximately 45 seconds of 'Rock Of Ages'. It was like getting punched in the soul." - Abby Krizner

  14. #14
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    Man... Now I'm leaning toward the 513 :-). I'm guessing that it would produce more authentic singlecoil tones.

    Does anyone know when next year's models usually announced?

    Br,
    Michael

  15. #15
    A♥ hoards guitars ♥A rugerpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_DK View Post
    Man... Now I'm leaning toward the 513 :-). I'm guessing that it would produce more authentic singlecoil tones.

    Does anyone know when next year's models usually announced?

    Br,
    Michael
    PRS is a bit capricious about when it announces new models. And they usually don't so much announce them as reveal them at some event like NAMM or the Experience.

    The 513 has been around a few years now and its proprietary pickups and electronic configuration doesn't lend itself to too much tweaking. Any change to the 513 besides a special run using special woods/inlays/hardware is likely to be minor from year to year. Any major change to its pups or electronics would actually make it a different model...

    So, if you have your eye on one, negotiate a good price and grab it. Waiting for 'next year's 513' is likely only going to get you a higher purchase price and very little change in the guitar itself.
    Thbbbbbt...
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    Yeah, I was actually thinking more about other models than the 513. Maybe there would be something announced that I should factor in to my considerations. I can see Namm is in january, so that's perfect. Experience would be in september I guess - that would be a long wait :-)

  17. #17
    Senior Member vchizzle's Avatar
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    I like the studio a lot, and the Swampy narrowfield. I kinda recommended 513 to a long time friend of mine who is looking for the single coil tones. I've never played one extensively because the switching system is a little much for my taste. But does indeed offer a pile of tones.

  18. #18
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    My first was a CE24 too and like you, the HFS just didn't do it for me so I swapped it right away.
    I have never played a 408 but I own a Studio.
    I am one of those guys (THAT guy?) who cried about the mismatch with the 57/08 in the bridge. Swapped it and LOVE the guitar.
    It is a Swiss ArmyKnife for SURE. They say the 408 is very versatile and does a good Fender/sc tone...but, to really cop that strat quack and chime, to me...you kinda NEED that middle pup blend.
    FWIW, I'm kinda isolated in rural Canada and I've only tried 1 PRS before buying it. My SE lol.

    Not very often you'll find a PRS that is a DOG so unlike Gibson or Fender's inconsistencies, you don't have to worry much. Add a solid return policy and you have nothing to worry about other than it meeting your cosmetic expectations.
    Good Luck.

  19. #19
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    Yeah, the 408 is pretty much out of the picture for me at this time. Who knows, it may come back on the list, but I don't think it really is what I am looking for at this time although I LOVE the concept.

    I'm vacillating badly between the 513 and the studio right now. I can't help but think that the 513 will be the best of the two for nailing single coil sounds. I already have a Les Paul studio, so even if the 513 doesn't offer a perfect humbucking sound on its own, I think I'm covered anyway (as I think I said before, I use the guitars for recording rather than gigging).

    The Studio, of course, has the 47/08 in the bridge and that gets a lot of love. And I can't ignore the fact that for the price of the 513 I could more or less get both the Studio AND an SE acustic which I have also contemplated in my weaker moments.

    Decisions, decisions....

  20. #20
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    Soo.... How come no one has mentioned the DGT? ;-) People seem to think is pretty darn versatile and with great single coil tones too... Any owners here?

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