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Thread: A New Amp Stand Experiment On Its Way

  1. #1

    A New Amp Stand Experiment On Its Way

    You guys know me. I have to be experimenting in the studio or I'm just not happy.

    For many years, I've been searching for the most effective way to isolate my guitar and bass speaker cabs from the floor for recording. There are a few problems that always need to be solved.

    The first problem is the speaker cabinet transferring its vibration to the floor, thereby causing structure-borne vibrations that in turn cause various items in the room to rattle and buzz. This noise gets picked up by the microphones. Ever record your amp and you hear something in the track that sounds vaguely like the phone ringing (usually your electric light bulbs), or a buzzing noise (often your heat registers buzzing against the walls, etc)? That's structure borne vibration. It's a track killer. It's also the thing that makes your wife want to kill you when your amp makes the whole house feel like it's going to shake apart.

    The second is getting the amp far enough from the floor to prevent half-space bass reinforcement resulting from sound reflecting off the floor, which causes muddy sound.

    And the final one is to use something sturdy enough to hold the cab in a stable position, even while tilted.

    I've tried everything from foam platforms (commercial and home-made), speaker stands, tube traps, hockey pucks, milk crates, stools, chairs, you name it. I have yet to find the long-term solution. The foam platforms come with foam attached to wood to stabilize the thing, but the wood itself resonates and has an effect on the tone. And the foam deteriorates over time.

    But I just ordered something that looks like it will do the trick and solve these issues. It's made by a company called Isoacoustics, and it's designed to hold very large monitor speakers and guitar cabinets, and isolate them via decoupled pistons from the floor. It also lifts them a few inches. In addition, it can work on a bench or table if I need to lift the amp higher off the floor, and isolate the cab from whatever it's resting on.

    It's this:



    And you put your cab on it like this:



    Basically, the part that interfaces with your cab is completely isolated from the part that touches the floor via piston-like gadgets that are suspended in special rubber mounts. It'll hold 100 pounds, it raises the amp off the floor a few inches, and the studio monitor versions have been very well reviewed. The amp stand gizmo is a new product for them. From what I gather from the reviews of their similar studio monitor stand products, this company is the real deal, and the isolation really works and results in much clearer acoustics.

    This should get rid of most of the mud, and get me more clarity in the all-important midrange, which is where guitars live.

    Surprisingly, it's not very expensive for what it is. I will report back once it arrives, and give you guys the skinny on whether it delivers on its promises.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 12-11-2013 at 10:55 PM.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  2. #2
    Happy Egads's Avatar
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    Interesting. Can't wait for the feed back.

  3. #3
    Ingenious engineering!
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  4. #4
    Plank Spanker justmund's Avatar
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    They look the goods, thanks for sharing Les. Will be keen to hear your report!

  5. #5
    Name Manglin' Putz alantig's Avatar
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    Yep - I'm watching this too.
    Alan

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  6. #6
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Let me know how you like 'em... decouplin' is bangin'.

  7. #7
    Senior Member andy474x's Avatar
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    Wow, pretty fancy stuff Les. If it works, I bet it'll be great. My 2x12 shakes pretty much everything in my practice space, so I can see why this would be a good thing to have!
    -I'm no expert, but it seems to work and I haven't electrocuted myself yet. Which is pretty much the standard I live by.

    SE Custom 24 25th Anniversary - SE Akesson+57/08's - SE 30 Head/Cab

  8. #8
    Should be here tomorrow, guys, and I've got some ad recording to do all weekend, so the timing couldn't be better.

    My Genelec monitors have an ingenious decoupling material attached to the bottom of the speakers that the speaker cabinets rest on, and they absolutely are the business. So my hopes for this product are high.

    I will definitely report back as soon as I have some experience with this product.

    Unfortunately due to the deadlines I'm working under, I won't have time to record "before" and "after" clips, because both projects that have to be delivered Monday, and I'm in the middle of my usual "Gaaaah! I'm falling behind!!!" freakout. So when the thing comes, I'm going to stick the cab on it right away and keep working.

    But I'm familiar enough with my room and how the cab sounds recorded that I should be able to give a somewhat accurate report.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 12-12-2013 at 11:11 PM.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  9. #9
    I guess Fedex had weather delays, and it won't arrive until Monday.

    So...yet another project will be done before I get the gizmo I ordered. Ah, well...
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    I guess Fedex had weather delays, and it won't arrive until Monday.

    So...yet another project will be done before I get the gizmo I ordered. Ah, well...
    Murphy never sleeps!
    2007 Ibanez JEM7V, LTD EC-1000VB, LTD GUS-600 EC
    PRS SE Torero - Limited Edition Solid Black with White Binding
    2012 PRS 408 Standard Trem - Natural with Pattern Thin Rosewood Neck
    2012 PRS Signature Limited Trem - Charcoal Burst

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Downing View Post
    Murphy never sleeps!
    So true. But there's always another project to do soon after, so...silver lining. Etc.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  12. #12
    Older getting younger
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    Subscribed. I'm curious how this compares to the Auralex Gramma. Or, are they 2 totally different animals?
    PRS electrics and bass, Taylor BTO GS Cocobolo, K26e Koa, 2012 FLTD 412ce-N and GS mini mahogany acoustic guitars; Bad Cat Cub IIR, Carr Rambler, Fender Supersonic 22, Univox, Fishman Loudbox 100, Loudbox Mini and Mark Bass amps
    In music, one must think with his heart and feel with his brain.
    I was joeprs on BAM

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pondsnorkeler View Post
    Subscribed. I'm curious how this compares to the Auralex Gramma. Or, are they 2 totally different animals?
    They are designed to do very similar things, namely get the amp off the floor a few inches, and decouple the speaker cab from the structure.. I'll let you know my thoughts once I test it out.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  14. #14
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    I like the Auralex Gramma under my Fender SS22. On the floor, the bass is muddy and boomy, on the Auralex Gramma, the bass seems to be tighter, more defined and not muddy. Does this make sense? I'm not good at describing sound.
    PRS electrics and bass, Taylor BTO GS Cocobolo, K26e Koa, 2012 FLTD 412ce-N and GS mini mahogany acoustic guitars; Bad Cat Cub IIR, Carr Rambler, Fender Supersonic 22, Univox, Fishman Loudbox 100, Loudbox Mini and Mark Bass amps
    In music, one must think with his heart and feel with his brain.
    I was joeprs on BAM

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pondsnorkeler View Post
    I like the Auralex Gramma under my Fender SS22. On the floor, the bass is muddy and boomy, on the Auralex Gramma, the bass seems to be tighter, more defined and not muddy. Does this make sense? I'm not good at describing sound.
    It makes perfect sense. What is happening is that by decoupling the amp from the floor, and raising it a little, two things are happening that are good:

    1. Vibrations aren't being directly transmitted to the structure, they are being absorbed by the foam; thus there aren't sympathetic resonances that muddy tone to anywhere near the same degree.

    2. The speakers are a bit farther from the floor. This reduces reflections from the floor that are called "half space doubling." The bass clears up as you move away from the surface of the floor because less bass is reflected by the floor.

    The idea of the Isoacoustics product is to take this concept a little further.

    1. The Isoacoustics stand is more rigid than a foam platform, and is designed to reduce the back and forth movement inherent in a cabinet with a large moving piston (i.e. the speaker), thus making the sound less smeary, and more focused in one spot on the mic.

    2. There is no platform to diffract or reflect sound coming off the speaker. In theory, this should result in even better sound than I got with the Gramma. Also, it fits wider amps than the standard Gramma.

    I do like the Gramma and I think it works pretty well, so if this is an improvement, great!
    Last edited by LSchefman; 12-16-2013 at 12:31 AM.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  16. #16
    Older getting younger
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    I look forward to reading your comments once you have the Isoacoustics stand and try it out for a while.
    Thanks for your input.
    PRS electrics and bass, Taylor BTO GS Cocobolo, K26e Koa, 2012 FLTD 412ce-N and GS mini mahogany acoustic guitars; Bad Cat Cub IIR, Carr Rambler, Fender Supersonic 22, Univox, Fishman Loudbox 100, Loudbox Mini and Mark Bass amps
    In music, one must think with his heart and feel with his brain.
    I was joeprs on BAM

  17. #17
    Looks cool
    I use a $20 MF stand - works for me

  18. #18
    A♥ hoards guitars A♥ rugerpc's Avatar
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    You don't need a new stand, Les.

    Just move outdoors! The snow makes a wonderful de-coupling media. It even dampens the ambient sounds of the woods!

    Thbbbbbt...
    Check it out: Phillybri used to have a band: Resonance But he's soooo over them now!

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  19. #19
    Holy crap, Ruger! You are the MAN!
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  20. #20
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rugerpc View Post
    One Life

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