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Thread: S2 Acoustics---will we see them?

  1. #1
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    S2 Acoustics---will we see them?

    Hi all....

    The release of the Alex Lifeson acoustic got me to thinking...

    Will we see a Maryland-made mid-line acoustic??

    Here's my "issue"...

    The PRS acoustics are amazing...but just way too expensive for my ability. I'm not a pro player, and Private Stock is out of the question. Even a used PRS acoustic is still around 4000...

    The SE acoustics are nice, but the glossy finish just looks amatuerish to me.

    I would have no problem spending 2000 to 2500 on an acoustic that would be that proverbial "last guitar you'll ever buy".

    Is there anyone else hoping for another PRS acoustic at a "middle" price point?


    Opinions welcome!


    Tony

  2. #2
    Senior Member themike's Avatar
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    I think you'd be more likely to see a core acoustic with stripped down features than an S2 because they literally had to build and buy machinery to create this new line of guitars. It was a huge undertaking so I'm not sure they'd go through that for a new acoustic model. Just a guess.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member jimistephen's Avatar
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    I would doubt it. It seems that acoustics are still a secondary (although that's changing quickly) instrument to the electrics. Furthermore, is it really needed? How much you can get by with a lot of things in electrics that you can't in acoustic and WMS is building amazing instruments for a lower price point because of their labor cost there. There's usually a huge difference between as $500 dollar and $5000 but $500 and $1500 is almost non existant. Look at fender MIM and Am. Std. guitars compared to MIM and CS.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sage's Avatar
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    I am noticing that there is no longer a Maryland-made PRS acoustic that isn't a Private Stock or Artist Package. That leaves an enormous gap between the SE Angelus and the Maryland-made acoustics.
    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    You should post a pic of BM so we know it's real.

  5. #5
    Plank Spanker justmund's Avatar
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    Funny timing, I only made this comment today, that a S2 acoustic would be great, just strip it back, no fancy stuff, use non-exotic woods etc

    I said this because I finally played a SE Angelus Custom today (after eagerly anticipating it's arrival into the local music store) and I didn't get along with it. I didn't like the tone, it had a mid-high hump that didn't float my boat, which is odd as I have another (much more expensive) acoustic in exactly the same wood combo (spruce top, IRW back n side, ebony bridge n board) and I really like the tone of that one. I didn't dig the white plastic binding around the body and board, and the gloss finish didn't do it for me either. It played and intonated well though, the action was a tad higher than I expected but that's a matter of taste and easily remedied. It wasn't a bad guitar, a good one for the price, but it just fell short of my expectations after having owned a couple of SE electrics.

    I can't justify the expense of a AP acoustic (as much as I want one in Tasmanian Blackwood), but I would be really interested in something that fills the gap between US and SE. So to answer your question, yes!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Audie's Avatar
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    This subject has been brought up before. I have done some homework and figured this much out. Acoustic Guitar sales have outsold electric guitar sales the past two years (2011,2012) by a margin of 52% to 47%, with a one percent variable. Kind of close to 50/50, but not so much when you are counting dollars. While last years numbers are still not posted, the expected increase in acoustic sales was not as high as most projected. Neither was electric sales. So was it closer to 50/50, this past year, I dont know. This much is true, wood is getting more and more expensive and harder to stockpile. To introduce a S2, or Coreline Acoustic is very pricey on this front alone. As much as I want one, I don't think it is reasonable with the factors I just mentioned and the economy. EIRW and Hog are especially getting more restrictive and expensive and these are woods, most would expect to see on a S2 or Coreline acoustic. So when you factor tool and and dye (not color), labor, materials, and marketing, the cost get ridiculous to be profitable. There is also the additional stigma of the failure of companies to market outside their strength. Fender has spent lots of money on acoustics and is still laughable. Gibson has a successful OLD history with both. But there QC and other issues have made it difficult, although they are one of the very few that have been somewhat successful. I base that more on the old history and legacy with electric and acoustics than I would overall success with consistent quality. Taylor has failed with its electric line. Martin has tried more than once and failed each time. So there is a history of crossover in the industry that has not proven to be as successful as PRS'H would expect and demand. With all this on the table, it is my opinion that PRS'H addresses the need in the most profitable and high quality way. That is, a well made overseas entry level acoustic that fills a profitable niche and introduces and exposes the Artist Package and PS line that hold their own and then some in the acoustic world. While they are pricey, they assure quality wood availability that leaves the factory at a managable pace that is well planned, profitable and not disruptive to wood supplies. All said, I still want a Coreline Acoustic, but I probably wont be getting one.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audie View Post
    Acoustic Guitar sales have outsold electric guitar sales the past two years (2011,2012) by a margin of 52% to 47%, with a one percent variable. Kind of close to 50/50, but not so much when you are counting dollars.
    Wait, what?! Are you talking for PRS, or for the industry as a whole, or what? Either way that's not at all what I would expect. Are you measuring units sold or total revenue for each? Where are you getting your numbers?
    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    You should post a pic of BM so we know it's real.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Audie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage View Post
    Wait, what?! Are you talking for PRS, or for the industry as a whole, or what? Either way that's not at all what I would expect. Are you measuring units sold or total revenue for each? Where are you getting your numbers?
    I am speaking for the industry as a whole with sales that I looked into when I was bummed to see that an S2 or Core offering did not come from PRS. This was what I learned. I got my info from Music Marketing Research Magazine and NAMM reports. I know it sounds crazy, but the numbers are what they are. As I said, 13's numbers are not in yet, for whatever reason, but the gap appears to have closedup some at best, or at least maintained.

    As far as the wood supplies goes, that is generic to the industry as well. The wood is not as available as it used to be.
    Last edited by Audie; 02-12-2014 at 12:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Sage's Avatar
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    So when you say acoustics have outsold electrics, is that in number of units, or in total dollar amounts, or what?
    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    You should post a pic of BM so we know it's real.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Audie's Avatar
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    That is in units. I screwed up the name of the mag, it is Musical Merchandise Review. The most popular models are what is really jacked up. They are OM and Parlor sized bodies followed by Small Jumbos or like models such as Grand Auditorium or Grand Symphony.

  11. #11
    Member Johnnyboy94's Avatar
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    Personally, My SE Angelus Standard is probably the last ACOUSTIC guitar ill ever buy..........a a SC245 version of the P24 is the last electric Ill ever buy......
    PRS SE Angelus Standard w/Piezo
    PRS Santana SE (Custom 22 w/Santana Headstock Inlay)
    Fender T-Bucket 300CE Acoustic-ElectricFender Mustang I
    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    I'm in the"buy all the prs guitars you can afford" camp.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Audie View Post
    This subject has been brought up before. I have done some homework and figured this much out. Acoustic Guitar sales have outsold electric guitar sales the past two years (2011,2012) by a margin of 52% to 47%, with a one percent variable. Kind of close to 50/50, but not so much when you are counting dollars. While last years numbers are still not posted, the expected increase in acoustic sales was not as high as most projected. Neither was electric sales. So was it closer to 50/50, this past year, I dont know. This much is true, wood is getting more and more expensive and harder to stockpile. To introduce a S2, or Coreline Acoustic is very pricey on this front alone. As much as I want one, I don't think it is reasonable with the factors I just mentioned and the economy. EIRW and Hog are especially getting more restrictive and expensive and these are woods, most would expect to see on a S2 or Coreline acoustic. So when you factor tool and and dye (not color), labor, materials, and marketing, the cost get ridiculous to be profitable. There is also the additional stigma of the failure of companies to market outside their strength. Fender has spent lots of money on acoustics and is still laughable. Gibson has a successful OLD history with both. But there QC and other issues have made it difficult, although they are one of the very few that have been somewhat successful. I base that more on the old history and legacy with electric and acoustics than I would overall success with consistent quality. Taylor has failed with its electric line. Martin has tried more than once and failed each time. So there is a history of crossover in the industry that has not proven to be as successful as PRS'H would expect and demand. With all this on the table, it is my opinion that PRS'H addresses the need in the most profitable and high quality way. That is, a well made overseas entry level acoustic that fills a profitable niche and introduces and exposes the Artist Package and PS line that hold their own and then some in the acoustic world. While they are pricey, they assure quality wood availability that leaves the factory at a managable pace that is well planned, profitable and not disruptive to wood supplies. All said, I still want a Coreline Acoustic, but I probably wont be getting one.
    This is a really interesting and well-researched post, Audie! Thank for posting it.

    I'm inclined to agree with all your points. In the world of acoustics, there's the very high end stuff PRS makes for its core line that has been well-reviewed and is getting a lot of industry respect. And the SE line is a very nice budget line.

    Between those two positions, PRS would be competing with Taylor, Martin, Gibson, and other more established acoustic brands, but to keep the cost down there would be compromises that might tarnish the reputation of the US acoustics.

    As an aside, I know you doubt you'd get a core acoustic, but I have to tell you, if you got one it'd be a lifetime instrument and you'd never regret it.
    Check us out: http://www.elfxi.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member vchizzle's Avatar
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    I would love to see a core acoustic. I was bummed to see only artist and PS acoustics also. Even seeing some discounted 2013 models, it's still so much more than I can justify spending. I hardly play my acoustic now. I fear we won't see one though because it's very much a PS like process I think where everything is really done by hand?

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    for anyone to infer that an acoustic was "the last guitar I'll ever buy" would imply that I was very near death.........

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