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Thread: Staying in tune

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by slang05 View Post
    WOW! I think the point that was attempting to be made was that there must be an issue with your guitar that is keeping it from staying in tune. I have never had an issue with using the whammy on my guitar and tuning issues. I use it a lot, no issues.

    I hear Reverend makes nice guitars, never played one but I hear constantly that Korean made guitars are getting pretty good. Congrats on your endorsement deal.

    Any links to your band?
    http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now...ject_news_item
    www.petsharkband.com

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pet-S...00261036696203

    Well, my new NF3 arrives tomorrow.
    I will report back on the tuning stability.
    Don't want anyone to get me wrong, I've owned five PRS guitars now (all USA versions, not the SE's) and if that doesn't tell you I like them very much, then nothing will.
    At the risk of extreme redundancy, I just think a guitar of this caliber really should be more consistent when it leaves the factory.

    Regarding the Bigsby equipped Reverend mentioned by Egads, I've never used one of those personally.
    Reeves Gabrels was showing off his new Reverend at the NAMM after show party and his stayed in tune through some very harsh treatment with a Bigsby tremolo.
    He told me about the design process and a few tricks Joe Naylor applied to his newest model and that it added to the tuning stability.
    The three Rev's I own have Wilkinsons.
    Last edited by SharkGuitar; 02-21-2014 at 12:22 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Jet Whitey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prs2studio View Post
    I am sick of how many times people suggest PTC for a set up. I well set up guitar should need adjustments twice a year. So your telling me that I need to box up my 2000 to 5000 guitar twice a year pay to send it to them and back and pay for a set up? It's asking for a broken in shipment problem and it's going through abuse due to sitting in a cold truck or hot truck during shipping. This is not rocket science and if you take your time and learn it's way better for everyone. It sounds like a number of possible issues. Start with the basics and check off as you go. Anyone can make a 100 guitar stay in tune or a 5000 guitar not it's all depending on set up.

    Ok.......I'm gonna stay a civil as possible! I never said to pack and ship your guitar to the PTC.I took my DGT to Maryland for the Experience as Grissom wanted to see and play it. I had Len Johnson set the guitar up to Dave's specs as mine are way different as far as string gauge and action, afterwards he reset it to my specs and 2 years later it still stays in tune. There are tons of great techs in LaLa land that can fix your 2000 - 5000 $$ guitars. In 2012 I moved from Seattle to Alabama. All my guitars....I believe at that time was about 17. All were gig ready and played while I was in Seattle. I would never gig/tour with a guitar than had tuning issues. I had a great tech in Seattle that maintained all my PRS/Gibson etc. 2 months after arriving in Alabama everyone of them needed adjustments. They were use to a total different environment. As good as PRS's are....they still need attention...not as much as most others but they do.
    PRS Guitars Endorsee....White and Relic'd Ones !

  3. #23
    Senior Member gush's Avatar
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    I was having tuning issues with my CE24, when I got it the trem was screwed down tight and not floating. I took the trem off, pulled fulcrum screws out and inspected them for damage. I could see some wear but not as bad as I was expecting. So when I reassembled the trem I made sure to get the screws even and set to the correct height then checked neck then set saddle height making sure they were level then checked intonation.

    I was pleasantly surprised at how much better it worked. Although it still isn't perfect, I'm much closer and will go to work on nut slots as my G string still goes sharp.

    The point is that everything has to be right in order for it to work as intended.

  4. #24
    My name be scrambled ElrytNamrogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    Although it still isn't perfect, I'm much closer and will go to work on nut slots as my G string still goes sharp.
    Childish joke. So. Tempting. Must maintain maturity level.....



    Can't resist....I'd look into finding a different brand of underwear.
    --Tyler G--
    2012 PRS Custom 24
    - Burnt Maple Leaf 10-top
    2008 PRS Custom 22 - Santana Yellow - Rosewood Neck - 10-top
    PRS SE Singlecut Trem - Tobacco Sunburst -Grover Locking Tuners - Bareknuckle Rebel Yells - Push/Pull Volume and Tone - Graphtech Self Lubricating nut

  5. #25
    Senior Member gush's Avatar
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    WOW!!! It all makes sense now. My singer said to me "I thought you were crazy but now I see you're nuts!". I wasn't sure what he meant!

  6. #26
    My name be scrambled ElrytNamrogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gush View Post
    WOW!!! It all makes sense now. My singer said to me "I thought you were crazy but now I see you're nuts!". I wasn't sure what he meant!
    --Tyler G--
    2012 PRS Custom 24
    - Burnt Maple Leaf 10-top
    2008 PRS Custom 22 - Santana Yellow - Rosewood Neck - 10-top
    PRS SE Singlecut Trem - Tobacco Sunburst -Grover Locking Tuners - Bareknuckle Rebel Yells - Push/Pull Volume and Tone - Graphtech Self Lubricating nut

  7. #27
    Senior Member swede71's Avatar
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    I guess you know how PRS tuners works and how to put new strings on(some dont).Try to floss the nutslots with regular dental floss.Try to find the waxed kind.When stretching strings dont forget to use the tremolo itself.Full on flat and Sharp.A tiny bit of machineoil can be used too on the knifeedges and tremoloscrews.Check out the setup videos with John Ingram on youtube,they are great.
    Last edited by swede71; 02-21-2014 at 03:47 PM.
    I de-modded my CU22 soapbar and made a factory spec setup.Im in love again.I very much believe now PRS guitars are perfect as they are.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkGuitar View Post
    I'm not some punk kid that needs a lecture on what the damn guitar is made of, nor what it needs to stay in tune.
    What it needs is the factory to make the nuts filed properly before they leave.
    My post was a good explanation of what can happen. You want to whine about having to adjust a guitar's nut slot, be my guest.

    The world isn't perfect, and stuff happens to wood, sometimes unpredictably. I've had around 20 PRSes, and none have ever had a poorly filed nut.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  9. #29
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    ^^^^^^^^^^ Still trying to figure out why my guitars didn't come with wood nuts??? ^^^^^^^^^^

    Anyways, the NF3 arrived.
    Changed the strings to 9's, made a few fine tweaks (adjusted the springs, lowered the action, reset the intonation) and it stays in tune excellently!
    Happy boy here.

    Overall impressions of the guitar are LOVE!
    The frets are a tad higher than I'm used to which adds a bit more resistance to doing slurs, but bends are handled with ease.
    The pickups are FANTASTIC!
    Great tone and balance.

    Volume and pickup selector are in a bit of an odd place.
    Volume is almost directly under the tremolo arm and the pickup selector takes a bit of reaching around the tremolo arm to get to compared to a traditional strat placement.
    I may look into getting a replacement pick guard made with the controls in the more traditional placements if I can't get used to them the way they are.
    Overall, I really love the guitar.
    The neck shape is just so comfortable.
    The Korina wood is light.
    great guitar to stand and play.


    @ swede71 - thanks for that tip about the floss.
    I'll be giving that one a try.
    I do always use oil on the fulcrum points about once every other month.
    Last edited by SharkGuitar; 02-21-2014 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #30
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    while I didn't meant to start a scrum, I guess I see both sides of the coin. For reference let me state the following. I think PRS are the best guitars there are. I own 3 and am in the process of selling other guitars to by another PRS. I LOVE the guitars, the company, the owner, everything.

    Now that I've said that, all my guitars were bought new. Meaning I have 3 guitars that retailed for over $10K. The latest two were both purchased within the last year or so, and both bought new. There is no "other" setup work needed on these guitars of any type. The necks are perfect, trems perfect, everything is great. They just won't stay in tune with even mild trem use or even just bending the stings. My assumption was that even though Paul personally demonstrated the nut sonic qualities and lubrication too me, that the only thing needed was a little nut lube. It hasn't worked on either guitar. (Actually, any of the three but we'll leave the "old" one out of this and focus on the new ones).

    So, these are the two best guitars I've ever put my hands on. And both of them are mine. And neither will stay in tune.

    So, just curious. How much does it cost to send a guitar to PRS for a "setup?" At this point, the bummer of this is, $200 or so for repairs and shipping x 2 = $400 out of the guitar fund that was being built up to purchase another one.

  11. #31

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkGuitar View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^ Still trying to figure out why my guitars didn't come with wood nuts??? ^^^^^^^^^^
    It isn't that the nut is wood. Obviously.

    The nut sits at the end of a wooden fingerboard and on a wooden neck. If the fingerboard swells or shrinks a tiny bit, or the neck relief changes a small amount, or the wood on the neck swells or shrinks a bit, the nut will sit differently in relation to the strings as its angle or position may change slightly. If the guitar body swells or shrinks with humidity changes, the nut angle will also change a small amount in relation to the strings.

    Also, PRS cuts its nuts tall, the strings sit deeply inside them, more so than with many other guitars I know of; Fender comes to mind off the top of my head as a maker whose nuts are cut in a more shallow fashion, with the strings sitting on top of them. If you observe a PRS guitar's string sitting in the nut, and then compare it to how a Fender sits more on top of the nut, you'll see a major difference in design philosophy.

    The taller nut might be (to my mind) more prone to bind a string if it's slightly out of whack, but that's how PRS does it. Since I love PRS instruments, I'm good with it. Their philosophy seems to work well for me.

    This is just a guess, as well: It's the German tanks and planes versus the Russian tanks and planes in WW2. The Russians' parts tolerances were very loose, which meant that when the cold came, and the lubricating oils got hard and the parts contracted, they still worked. They were less prone to be affected by the environment.

    The German tanks and planes (and guns as well!) had very tight tolerances. When the cold came, and the lubricating oils hardened everything contracted, they didn't work. They were made better, but far more affected by the environment they operated in.

    So one guitar maker might simply have looser tolerances (you mention Reverend, many of whose guitars are formica covered masonite, not solid wood) to survive the shipping overseas with fewer complaints, and PRS may simply have tighter tolerances that need more adjustment from time to time. To my hands, PRS guitars feel more like precision instruments than Reverend guitars, despite how well the Reverends can work as a player's instrument.

    Anyway, the result of this stuff is that sometimes the nut binds a little. The fix is pretty simple.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 02-22-2014 at 02:24 PM.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  13. #33
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    I did search You Tube as suggested, for an easier solution but didn't find anything helpful. I'm thinking that polishing the nut slots would be the solution...

  14. #34
    Senior Member Jet Whitey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTheaterRules View Post
    while I didn't meant to start a scrum, I guess I see both sides of the coin. For reference let me state the following. I think PRS are the best guitars there are. I own 3 and am in the process of selling other guitars to by another PRS. I LOVE the guitars, the company, the owner, everything.

    Now that I've said that, all my guitars were bought new. Meaning I have 3 guitars that retailed for over $10K. The latest two were both purchased within the last year or so, and both bought new. There is no "other" setup work needed on these guitars of any type. The necks are perfect, trems perfect, everything is great. They just won't stay in tune with even mild trem use or even just bending the stings. My assumption was that even though Paul personally demonstrated the nut sonic qualities and lubrication too me, that the only thing needed was a little nut lube. It hasn't worked on either guitar. (Actually, any of the three but we'll leave the "old" one out of this and focus on the new ones).

    So, these are the two best guitars I've ever put my hands on. And both of them are mine. And neither will stay in tune.

    So, just curious. How much does it cost to send a guitar to PRS for a "setup?" At this point, the bummer of this is, $200 or so for repairs and shipping x 2 = $400 out of the guitar fund that was being built up to purchase another one.

    Take em to Ron....he'll hook you up! GREAT GUY!!!!

    Ron Lucas
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    Guitar Center Cincinnati
    513-671-4555
    ronald.lucas@guitarcenter.com
    PRS Guitars Endorsee....White and Relic'd Ones !

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    It isn't that the nut is wood. Obviously.

    The nut sits at the end of a wooden fingerboard and on a wooden neck. If the fingerboard swells or shrinks a tiny bit, or the neck relief changes a small amount, or the wood on the neck swells or shrinks a bit, the nut will sit differently in relation to the strings as its angle or position may change slightly. If the guitar body swells or shrinks with humidity changes, the nut angle will also change a small amount in relation to the strings.

    Also, PRS cuts its nuts tall, the strings sit deeply inside them, more so than with many other guitars I know of; Fender comes to mind off the top of my head as a maker whose nuts are cut in a more shallow fashion, with the strings sitting on top of them. If you observe a PRS guitar's string sitting in the nut, and then compare it to how a Fender sits more on top of the nut, you'll see a major difference in design philosophy.

    The taller nut might be (to my mind) more prone to bind a string if it's slightly out of whack, but that's how PRS does it. Since I love PRS instruments, I'm good with it. Their philosophy seems to work well for me.

    This is just a guess, as well: It's the German tanks and planes versus the Russian tanks and planes in WW2. The Russians' parts tolerances were very loose, which meant that when the cold came, and the lubricating oils got hard and the parts contracted, they still worked. They were less prone to be affected by the environment.

    The German tanks and planes (and guns as well!) had very tight tolerances. When the cold came, and the lubricating oils hardened everything contracted, they didn't work. They were made better, but far more affected by the environment they operated in.

    So one guitar maker might simply have looser tolerances (you mention Reverend, many of whose guitars are formica covered masonite, not solid wood) to survive the shipping overseas with fewer complaints, and PRS may simply have tighter tolerances that need more adjustment from time to time. To my hands, PRS guitars feel more like precision instruments than Reverend guitars, despite how well the Reverends can work as a player's instrument.

    Anyway, the result of this stuff is that sometimes the nut binds a little. The fix is pretty simple.
    Reverend stopped making the "formica" guitars many years ago.
    They are all Korina.

    Regarding the PRS guitars, the amount of "out of whack" it would take to change the string angle against a nut slot would have to be very substantial to cause the strings to bind in the nut slots.
    Sounds to me like you are making a wild assumption not based in fact.
    Using "Russian vs German" tanks does not substantiate your argument in my mind.
    You might as well throw astrology into that mix while your at it.
    Sorry I'm still not buying your argument.
    Fact is, some of the nuts just are not cut and filed in a way that allows a certain amount of the guitars leaving the factory to stay in tune.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkGuitar View Post
    You might as well throw astrology into that mix while your at it
    OK, the reason your guitars are not staying in tune is that your sun semi-sextile was in Mercury, and therefore your guitars missed out on 90% of the mojo.

    I feel really bad for you.
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    OK, the reason your guitars are not staying in tune is that your sun semi-sextile was in Mercury, and therefore your guitars missed out on 90% of the mojo.

    I feel really bad for you.
    Lol!
    Alright. I yield.
    Makes perfect sense now.

    Hey brother, seriously, I don't want to keep a pissing match going on forever here, especially with me a new member just coming in to the forum.
    I just honestly disagree with your assessment of the wood going out of whack as the cause of the nut binding.
    I think it would have to go much more than a few thousandths of relief to change the angle enough to cause binding at the nut.
    Still subscribing to the theory a few other people have posted here; the nut just nut just needs more attention at the factory to prevent binding.

    Anyways, I hope I haven't too thoroughly offended anyone and I'm looking forward to being a regular here in the PRS forums.

  18. #38
    DEEPER STRIATIONS markie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Whitey View Post
    Take em to Ron....he'll hook you up! GREAT GUY!!!!

    Ron Lucas
    Platinum Manager
    Guitar Center Cincinnati
    513-671-4555
    ronald.lucas@guitarcenter.com




    Good call Whitey .............. Ron is really good!
    Fanboy of the Jester (AKA) James (Previously known as 11top)

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkGuitar View Post
    Lol!
    Alright. I yield.
    Makes perfect sense now.

    Hey brother, seriously, I don't want to keep a pissing match going on forever here, especially with me a new member just coming in to the forum.
    I just honestly disagree with your assessment of the wood going out of whack as the cause of the nut binding.
    I think it would have to go much more than a few thousandths of relief to change the angle enough to cause binding at the nut.
    Still subscribing to the theory a few other people have posted here; the nut just nut just needs more attention at the factory to prevent binding.

    Anyways, I hope I haven't too thoroughly offended anyone and I'm looking forward to being a regular here in the PRS forums.
    No worries, we are indeed brother musicians!
    If something is too hard to do, then it's not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle and we'll go inside and watch TV.
    -- Homer J. Simpson

  20. #40
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    I know Ron (bought most of much of my gear in the last few years including the Anniversary LTD model, from Nolan).

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