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Thread: Fake JA15 Plus Trademark, Copyright Violations

  1. #1

    Fake JA15 Plus Trademark, Copyright Violations

    Look at this; it makes me sick. They're using photographs of PRS guitars, materials, etc., and advertising a "PRS JA-15" with logo and the whole nine yards for $424.

    Come on. This is highly illegal under US and international law. Here's a link to the site:

    http://www.rareelectricguitar.com/PR...-sale_997.html

    This really makes me angry, they need to be shut down.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member Raymond's Avatar
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    The audacity!

    is there a department of trade you can report it to?
    PRS Custom-24 10-Top Black Gold, Stripped 58 Blue Multi Foil
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  3. #3
    The Force is weak in ^^ mezzio's Avatar
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    Woah, interesting. I say interesting because the company knowingly and willingly "recreates" guitars and advertises they do so. I personally have no problems with recreations, but they're making a giant mistake by using other companies logos, and that irritates me quite a bit.

    Has this been sent to the PRS legal team? I thought I saw the email address somewhere on the site.

    Unfortunately if the company is based out of china, there isn't much that can be done since they don't care about our copyright laws, so they won't enforce them or allow an American copyright holder to do so either.
    Last edited by mezzio; 04-02-2014 at 11:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Raven Lunatic Raven17's Avatar
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    I buy all my guitars from them and they are as good if not better than a Maryland made wall decoration! Why pay thousands for wall art if you can pay hundreds! Geez it's not like you need then to sound and play good. (This is sarcasm just in case it's not as obvious as intended)
    2014Private Stock Modern Eagle Brazzy,'14'PS Violin II, 14 Tremonti Artist,'11 SC 58 Artist,'12 Custom 22 Artist,'15 Waring Sig 10Top, '12 Tremonti one-off,2007/13 McCarty Korina,'13 408 10Top, '11 Custom24 10Top,'12 DGT w/BK Miracle Man pups,'12 Studio w/BK Cold Sweat,'07/13 Navarro w/BK Cold Sweat pups,'09 Tremonti SE with \m/ pups, EVH 5150 Half stack, Randall Half Stack, Hughs & Kettner TubeMeister, other fiddles beyond counting

  5. #5
    Senior Member andy474x's Avatar
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    That's sick... but anyone who gets one deserves the piece of junk they get!!!
    -I'm no expert, but it seems to work and I haven't electrocuted myself yet. Which is pretty much the standard I live by.

    S2 Custom 22 Semi-Hollow - SE Akesson+57/08's - SE Custom 24 25th Anniversary - SE 30 Head/Cab

  6. #6
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    If they mean "rare" as in "under-cooked" they're not really being deceptive.

  7. #7
    Cream Crackered Mikegarveyblues's Avatar
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    Pretty shocking to say the least!

    Hope they're not based out in China otherwise PRS can do sweet FA about it.

    One thing I have learned from that site is that the Chris Henderson signature SE is exactly the same as the Bernie Marsden... So I'm now confused as to what sig model I have...
    Modified SE Bernie Marsden, Fender Strat
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  8. #8
    Junior Member Therinx's Avatar
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    Looks like its China based, evidenced by what other forums have noticed. Sad.

  9. #9
    There are violations of trademark laws in the intention to confuse the marketplace, use trademarked items PRS has exclusive rights to, and use the actual trademark itself! These are obviously being promoted as counterfeit goods.

    The copyright violations - these are separate issues from the trademark violations - include the misuse of pictures, videos, and promotional materials created for and by PRS.

    I realize that there isn't much we can do about preventing Chinese con artists making use of the internet. But China is a police state, and their government is certainly in a position to shut this company down if it chooses to.

    However, by virtue of the fact that these items are being imported into this country, they are subject to our laws, and our customs people, and these counterfeits shouldn't escape confiscation the moment they are in our territorial waters. If we have to abide by things like the CITES laws, surely our government can make some tiny effort to prevent the importation of goods that clearly and intentionally violate our laws.

    The trademark laws allow PRS to get federal court orders to have these items confiscated and to prevent their entry into the US. Whether that's worth the effort, I can't say, that's a business decision for PRS. But if I were Paul, I'd be pretty darn sick of this kind of thing.

    If the Chinese won't enforce the international treaties and laws they are signatories to, then their goods should be embargoed. All of their goods. That would get their attention.

    Unfortunately, our corporations that sell, and incorporate, Chinese made goods in their product lines are not exactly on board with this for obvious reasons. It's sickening. China's corruption is no surprise, but we've given them a stranglehold on certain aspects of our economy. Many of our corporations simply accept this corruption as a cost of getting cheap goods to sell to us.

    But this nonsense is why we see counterfeit goods from time to time here. It's highly unfair to businesses like PRS, who not only make goods here, but who also import goods through legit channels.

    I have my own little boycott of Chinese goods going whenever it's possible (sometimes you cannot find a product that doesn't have chinese parts), and this kind of thing is partly why (I also find that Chinese goods are poorly made and prone to failure; then there is the whole issue of how they run their factories). With this trade imbalance, the tail wags the dog. Imagine what would happen in the event of hostilities!

    I'll get off my soapbox now. I'm sure you're all sick of my ranting, and I don't wish to appear to be political.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 04-02-2014 at 06:26 PM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  10. #10
    Name Manglin' Putz alantig's Avatar
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    So - that's NOT a legitimate rare PRS JA-17 I just ordered?
    Alan

    "I watched approximately 45 seconds of 'Rock Of Ages'. It was like getting punched in the soul." - Abby Krizner

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by alantig View Post
    So - that's NOT a legitimate rare PRS JA-17 I just ordered?
    Think of how I feel sitting here with this 407!
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  12. #12
    Senior Member andy474x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Think of how I feel sitting here with this 407!
    One-off?
    -I'm no expert, but it seems to work and I haven't electrocuted myself yet. Which is pretty much the standard I live by.

    S2 Custom 22 Semi-Hollow - SE Akesson+57/08's - SE Custom 24 25th Anniversary - SE 30 Head/Cab

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by andy474x View Post
    One-off?
    Haha! Yeah, exactly one off.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  14. #14
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    Damn i just ordered a custom 23 Floyd Rose in amythyst
    I am not a luthier but i am in my own workshop.
    https://www.facebook.com/driffguitar

  15. #15
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    The Chinese will never pursue anyone for any counterfeiting that brings in hard currency. If there were any threat to their own economy, their attitude would obviously be very different.

    France, Germany and Italy protect their industries with fines (France and Italy) and prison sentences (France and Germany) for buying and selling counterfeit goods. The idea is to prevent the customer from buying so that the sellers have no market just as much as it is to track down the sellers.

    Apparently, in legal terms a counterfeit is an item which attempts to pass for the real thing using the correct design, logo etc. while a knock-off is something that looks a lot like the real thing but doesn't claim to be. I guess these guitars are riding pretty close to counterfeit in that they use the logos and could be sold on as the real thing to unsuspecting buyers. A law that imposes a fine equal to or greater than the cost of the genuine item would certainly deter a lot of people from buying from these jokers.

  16. #16
    The Europeans aren't the only ones with enforcement provisions, ADP.

    We actually have civil judgments, with 25k minimum amounts (IIRC), and criminal penalties in the US for violations of Trademark laws.

    There's no legal term 'knock-off.' However, our trademark laws prevent misuse of trade dress, trademarked designs, and similar. These adequately cover knock-off goods.

    While counterfeit goods are specified in the law, the ideas behind the Trademark laws will equally prevent someone from using anything that will cause confusion in the marketplace, etc. In my law days I litigated trademark matters from time to time.

    Typically, the legal team seeking to enforce the law will get an ex-parts seizure order the day the litigation is filed. This will allow the US Marshals to raid the location where the goods are kept, seize the offending goods pending litigation, and preserve the evidence for trial. The defendant will often attempt to get the seizure order lifted, but unless it's a close call, the seized goods are kept.

    To show you the items needn't be individually expensive to merit seizure, this kind of litigation routinely occurs all over the US in the case of counterfeit cigarettes.

    The 25K fine is per item, not per group of goods. It can get very expensive for counterfeiters and the like. I have seen fines paid by a store for as few as two or three packages of seized cigarettes.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 04-03-2014 at 10:59 AM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  17. #17
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    In the last couple of years the market for counterfeit sports jerseys has either disappeared or gone deep underground. So there is precedent of the government taking these violations seriously. They usually have the FBI shut down the violating web site.

  18. #18
    Senior Member andy474x's Avatar
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    I wonder how much these actually bite into PRS sales. My guess would be not very much, although the concept is still plenty irritating! There's this guy on YT:

    I think this video was posted here a while back, but anyways, this guy claims he's only buying them for "educational purposes" or something, but he's bought at least a couple and set them, modded, etc, disguised as experimentation to see how they compare, but in reality I think he just wants to make himself feel good about buying Chinese knockoffs.

    Personally, I don't see any intelligent person spending the money on one of these pieces of junk, unless they're just totally bling focused. Why spend $500 on a chinese knockoff, when you can get the similarly priced SE models that have it all going on and are hand checked by PRS in Maryland? I would be interested to know how many are actually imported to the US... maybe a few, maybe I would be surprised and it's a lot!
    -I'm no expert, but it seems to work and I haven't electrocuted myself yet. Which is pretty much the standard I live by.

    S2 Custom 22 Semi-Hollow - SE Akesson+57/08's - SE Custom 24 25th Anniversary - SE 30 Head/Cab

  19. #19
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADP View Post
    France, Germany and Italy protect their industries with fines (France and Italy) and prison sentences (France and Germany) for buying and selling counterfeit goods. The idea is to prevent the customer from buying so that the sellers have no market just as much as it is to track down the sellers.
    I recall reading somewhere that NY was trying to pass a law that would also go after the buyers of counterfeit goods. I can't remember if some European countries already do that or not.

  20. #20
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    What I was referring to was the criminalisation of actually buying counterfeit goods in those countries. Here in the UK there's no law to deter someone from buying a fake item, but in France you can go to prison or receive a fine of up to €300,000 for buying, wearing, carrying, or attempting to import counterfeit goods.

    China, on the other hand has no interest in protecting copyright, trademarks or anything else that does not originate from within its borders.

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