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Thread: Head and Horizontal 2x12 Stand/Prop

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    That cab is awesome huge! Cavernous inside, too. I bought it unloaded in about '85 when I bought my Twin II. Only had some Celestion G12M-70s for it. Horrible speakers but still loved the cab. It's about to get reloaded again, but not to gig...I'm too damned old for that!

    With that said, the Bassman 4x12 with stock Jensens is the sh*t!! It's bigger (way over 100lbs) and on casters but it is one of my fav guitar amps of all time. The DGT thru it cranked is pure coolness.

    And it's so hard to get them to stick to the wall like that!
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

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  2. #22
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    Holy photo-failures, Batman!

    The secret: velcro.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  3. #23
    DEEPER STRIATIONS markie's Avatar
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    Wow, I just laid down on my Desk to look at this picture. Unfortunately, Someone walked in the office & wondered WTF I was doing. It really got weird when I told them I was looking at my friend's picture



    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    That cab is awesome huge! Cavernous inside, too. I bought it unloaded in about '85 when I bought my Twin II. Only had some Celestion G12M-70s for it. Horrible speakers but still loved the cab. It's about to get reloaded again, but not to gig...I'm too damned old for that!

    With that said, the Bassman 4x12 with stock Jensens is the sh*t!! It's bigger (way over 100lbs) and on casters but it is one of my fav guitar amps of all time. The DGT thru it cranked is pure coolness.

    Fanboy of the Jester (AKA) James (Previously known as 11top)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    Holy photo-failures, Batman!

    The secret: velcro.
    I love velcro. I don't actually use it for anything, but the concept is so cool.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 04-15-2014 at 02:14 PM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  5. #25
    Happy Egads's Avatar
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    And I see the knurled knobs for the head/cab connection, too!

    BTW, back to the OP, how much Velcro do you think it would take to secure a 100 head to a 2x12 tilted back at a 45 degree angle?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    Holy photo-failures, Batman!
    That crazy photo got me thinking though, how do those plexiglass(?) shields work for helping you crank up the volume. I've also just thought about turning my cab around so it would face the wall. Wouldn't both of these options just mash all of the sound waves together?

  7. #27
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treillw View Post
    That crazy photo got me thinking though, how do those plexiglass(?) shields work for helping you crank up the volume. I've also just thought about turning my cab around so it would face the wall. Wouldn't both of these options just mash all of the sound waves together?
    They work pretty well. Yes, it messes with the tone but it keeps from killing people in the front row really well. That pic also gives you reference to the size of that cab. The baffle is big enough to properly cover the PRS 2x12. The 4x12 makes it look like a joke.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    They work pretty well. Yes, it messes with the tone but it keeps from killing people in the front row really well. That pic also gives you reference to the size of that cab. The baffle is big enough to properly cover the PRS 2x12. The 4x12 makes it look like a joke.
    I had a '67 Bassman for a long time, with a cab like that. It was gargantuan! I used to have trouble getting it into cars for gigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by treillw View Post
    That crazy photo got me thinking though, how do those plexiglass(?) shields work for helping you crank up the volume. I've also just thought about turning my cab around so it would face the wall. Wouldn't both of these options just mash all of the sound waves together?
    Of course, you're right - the reflections off the baffle will cause phase cancellations that will cancel out certain frequencies, but prevent beaming into the front row. The advantage of these is ease of transport. They're light.

    The more effective tool for the job (that won't cause the phase issues to nearly the same extent) is a simple studio gobo, which is a frame, sometimes with a baffle, with sound absorbers attached. This allows the musician to play at enough volume to sound the way the musician wants to sound, while at the same time allowing absorption. The player can experiment with how much or little absorption is needed by careful placement of the thing. If necessary, the amp can be miked up very effectively by the sound guy:

    http://www.atsacoustics.com/studio-s...&kw=1160-SSTKR

    This is how amps and drums are isolated for live band recordings with everyone playing together. It's not expensive to do this, and I honestly don't understand why live performance venues like clubs don't have these on hand to control volumes.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 04-16-2014 at 11:54 AM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    I had a '67 Bassman for a long time, with a cab like that. It was gargantuan! I used to have trouble getting it into cars for gigs.



    Of course, you're right - the reflections off the baffle will cause phase cancellations that will cancel out certain frequencies, but prevent beaming into the front row. The advantage of these is ease of transport. They're light.

    The more effective tool for the job (that won't cause the phase issues to nearly the same extent) is a simple studio gobo, which is a frame, sometimes with a baffle, with sound absorbers attached. This allows the musician to play at enough volume to sound the way the musician wants to sound, while at the same time allowing absorption. The player can experiment with how much or little absorption is needed by careful placement of the thing. If necessary, the amp can be miked up very effectively by the sound guy:

    http://www.atsacoustics.com/studio-s...&kw=1160-SSTKR

    This is how amps and drums are isolated for live band recordings with everyone playing together. It's not expensive to do this, and I honestly don't understand why live performance venues like clubs don't have these on hand to control volumes.
    Would the gobo be more effective than tilting the amp back? The room that I typically play in is the size of a medium gymnasium with a high ceiling.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by treillw View Post
    Would the gobo be more effective than tilting the amp back? The room that I typically play in is the size of a medium gymnasium with a high ceiling.
    Tilting the amp back serves a completely different purpose than using a gobo, here's why:

    Tilting the amp raises the front edge and bottom of the cabinet off the floor. This does a small amount of decoupling the amp from the floor and reduces structure borne vibrations transmitted from cab to floor, and resonances a little. It also aims the speakers at the player and they beam less at listeners in the upper midrange and higher frequencies, where speakers tend to get ice-picky.

    The little bit of decoupling they do and the angle also helps to reduce bass boom, because it reduces reflections off the floor called half space reinforcement. However, tilting the cab back can actually make things worse in a very reflective, "live" room like a gym, or sometimes even a club.

    The gobo serves a different purpose entirely - it is designed to isolate the sound coming from the speaker from the general wash of noise produced by a band, so that it can be properly miked up, and because it absorbs sound pressure to a decent degree, it allows the player to crank the amp a little more without causing deafness to the audience. Does it also tend to reduce boominess of the bass? Yes, a well designed one can because it acts as a bass trap. It can also be used to shield the audience from direct beaming from the speakers. And if you have a sound man, it makes his job much easier by helping to isolate instruments from one another.

    Tilting the cab in a large, live room like a gym just causes the sound to reflect and bounce around the room in a different way than not tilting it back, but it does very little to solve the other issues, and like anything else, can cause more problems in some rooms and do next to nothing in others.

    On the other hand, a gobo will reduce the amount of uncontrolled bounce of sound around a room, and generally create a tighter sound, if used with a little experimentation.

    In the studio it isn't unusual to surround a cab with gobos on the sides, front and on top of the cab, and stick a mic in front of the grill, to reduce bleed and sound pressure levels.

    We've all heard the glare, echoes, and indistinct sound of a band in a room that's too live. The purpose of the gobo is isolation and absorption to reduce that.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post

    ...... it reduces reflections off the floor called half space reinforcement.
    How in the world do you know all of this? haha Thank you.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by treillw View Post
    How in the world do you know all of this? haha Thank you.
    It's kind of a long story, but it all started because I don't like to watch TV.

    While I was still practicing law in the late 80s, after the kids went to bed, my wife would want to watch TV. So I built a recording studio. I did it mainly because I needed a place to practice music where I wouldn't drive everyone crazy with noise, and because I always preferred making music to listening to it or watching someone else do it.

    After making that investment of time and resources, I figured I should understand what I was doing, both musically and with the recording process itself.

    So I read the classic F. Alton Everest Master Handbook Of Acoustics. It's a standard text in most college audio courses. At the time I was also reading the Rimsky-Korsakov book on orchestration. I became so immersed in this material that I began to do more and more work in the studio. Eventually what started as a hobby became my livelihood.

    But I like to read. I'll read anything.

    As a kid if there was nothing interesting to do I'd read the encyclopedia. I must have picked up a lot of information!
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  13. #33
    Happy Egads's Avatar
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    Wait a minute! They had encyclopedias way back then? They must have been hand scribed.

  14. #34
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egads View Post
    They must have been hand scribed.
    On stones.

  15. #35
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egads View Post
    Wait a minute! They had encyclopedias way back then? They must have been hand scribed.
    For you kids, they are hard back Wiki pages...maybe on papyrus.

    Les, can you give placement examples for the gobos? I've seen the nice baffle enclosures with lids but not what you described, which is very interesting. Great topic and discussion!
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by sergiodeblanc View Post
    On stones.
    Clay cuneiform tablets, actually.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    For you kids, they are hard back Wiki pages...maybe on papyrus.

    Les, can you give placement examples for the gobos? I've seen the nice baffle enclosures with lids but not what you described, which is very interesting. Great topic and discussion!
    Here's an example of two gobos set up to form a triangle shape in front an amp (the amp itself is the third side of the triangle, with another gobo simply placed on top; the gobo facing the viewer has a window to show the positions of the amp and mic). In practice you probably wouldn't use a window gobo:



    This kind of setup would be to obtain more isolation than usual in a live recording setting. In most cases, one or two gobos would offer enough isolation for live use or live recording. The idea is simply to keep sounds separate but not completely isolated.

    These same kinds of gobos can be stacked on top of one another to give more isolation to, say, a vocalist, or a drummer, or acoustic guitarist. Most studios all over the world have gobos of one kind or another for these purposes. These happen to be nice ones made by a company called Taytrix. They're small enough to be stacked as needed, and don't interfere with lines of sight between players.

    Here's a more typical setup in a larger studio, with large gobos to separate the players; these have windows permitting sight lines. Usually gobos like these are on wheeled trolleys so they can be arranged as needed:

    Last edited by LSchefman; 04-18-2014 at 11:48 AM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  18. #38
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    You could have a look at these...I use this with my 212 combo, don't know about horizontal? http://www.ampendage.com/
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  19. #39

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