"Sinker" on Sigs

[11top]

I like my Sig, and it was well worth what I paid for it new. To even think that I'd ask for my money back is absurd.

[ldg0352]

I like my Sig, and it was well worth what I paid for it new. To even think that I'd ask for my money back is absurd.

+1....and then some.

[Zilmo]

I'd love to get a stoptail version and whack a hole in it.

[docbennett]

Lemme tell ya from personal experience.

Having a Private Stock Sig and finding out that the neck may not be "real genuine recovered submerged lumber" is not nearly as bad as when I bought a "100% original Vintage Gibson" and later found out that it had been modified and sold by a reputable dealer as unmolested. Same thing happened with a '61 Strat about 7 years ago. These experiences soured me on the "vintage market".

this "debacle" is more debate than damage. I'm keeping my Sig. I will buy many more PRS (and I own many already).

And, I do think that Paul and the company should offer to either buy back, exchange or otherwise "credit" anyone who bought a signature and who feels as if they deserve some restitution. None for me thanks. And I still think the company is topnotch. I find this to be an interesting anomaly and look forward to seeing how it resolves.
















I asked Howie what he thought of this controversy....

[cwhenke]

I like both my Sig's. There IS a difference in the sustain on both of these compared to my other gtrs. PRS, Fender, whatever. So I do think that this run of "hog" is special. I also thought that it meant it was old wood recovered from the bottom of some pond/river but it really doesn't matter to me. Unplugged they ring/sustain forever. So, just my opinion.


Kate likes them both.

But I think she prefers "Norma"..One of my fave pics of Kate. Her curiosity of everything has made me look at things in a whole new way.

Damn, Chris, she is ADORABLE.

[markie]

It doesn't matter what I think about the core issue at this point, so the question becomes, "What's a workable and good solution?" Silberman suggests what seems on the surface to be a sensible solution, buy back the guitars from people who'd rather have the money.

There are 400 Sig Ltds and however many PS versions. That could amount to a couple of million dollars. Is it really workable to saddle PRS with that kind of loss in this very shaky economy? After all, no one disputes that the guitars are, in fact, excellent guitars. The only issue is the "magic" stuff, the 200 year old wood bragging rights, the coolness, whatever you want to call it.

I paid within a hair of Sig money for an Artist V that didn't have any of that Sinker stuff, and didn't have the special pickups or electronics. I have a real question as to how much, if anything, PRS factored the Sinker thing into the price. We all know it would be anyone's guess. I'm willing to bet that they came up with a price for the package, and didn't sit around with calculators saying, "Let's see, we're going to charge X for this quality of wood, and Y for the binding on the neck, and Z because of this switch, etc. So how does one adjust for what's fair?

What if Silberman's suggestion would hamper PRS' ability to operate or come up with new products? (Note, I say "What if" because I am not privy to PRS' finances obviously I'm guessing). But if it came to that, is it what you guys really want to see happen?

Then what happens with guys like BuickRob, who have their guitars for sale? What if they sell them, and later claim that they couldn't get a fair price for them because of the lack of Sinker wood? There's still a potential small claim there, but multiply the claims, and you have an unknown potential for further trouble. There are in fact several Sigs for sale on VR right now.

And what about the people who'd rather just keep the guitar, but still want something to show for their trouble?

It's a big can of worms. A simple solution isn't as easy as one might think.

Very well said Les! I don't particularly want to see PRS go out of business. Also, I do not wish "Something to show for my trouble"............... Something about my moral values .



That being said................................ I certainly thought my neck came from the bottom of a Lake!

[LSchefman]

Very well said Les! I don't particularly want to see PRS go out of business. Also, I do not wish "Something to show for my trouble"............... Something about my moral values .



That being said................................ I certainly thought my neck came from the bottom of a Lake!

Markie, I have a lovely spring fed lake right by my house. And I have some rope, and an anchor. Send the guitar and consider the problem solved. How long ya want it left on the bottom?

[LSchefman]

As for me I'm thinking of buying one or two of these instruments...they are phenomenal and full of innovation...

Seems to be a bunch on the relative cheap right now...

Considering original cost versus other offerings...seems to be a nice opportunity in the used market.

I completely agree. I don't know if current prices have anything to do with what we've been discussing, or simply because the economy is sluggish, but these are bargains. Most of the ones I've seen for sale look like they've hardly been played!

I'd love to own one with a trem at some point.

[Zilmo]

Anyone that hates their stoptail Siggy is invited to send it my way for some tender loving care!

[DirtyMoonsRJT]

I'd love to get a stoptail version and whack a hole in it.

Now this sounds like a great idea!

I think Someone has one of these in a PS version...amazing looking axe if I remember correctly.

[PRSHB2]

I completely agree. I don't know if current prices have anything to do with what we've been discussing, or simply because the economy is sluggish, but these are bargains. Most of the ones I've seen for sale look like they've hardly been played!

I'd love to own one with a trem at some point.

I personally know of one that is still in mint condition, 4 hours of play time, with a trem in Blackgold. PM me if interested. Not mine, at least not anymore, but a killer deal.

[Twinfan]

I'd love to get a stoptail version and whack a hole in it.

I think Someone has one of these in a PS version...amazing looking axe if I remember correctly.

Do you mean mine? If so - it's just fine as it is thanks

[george johnson]

^^ Yes, that is fine!

[DirtyMoonsRJT]

Do you mean mine? If so - it's just fine as it is thanks

No. I didn't mean yours. I love yours...it's one of my favorite PS...kills me every time I see it....however the 2TEK is a game changing bridge IMHO...I would love it in a sig...PS or production. dang it...now I have to go through the photos I saved of the old PS thread to see if one actually exists or if I just made it up...maybe I'm thinking of a different one... I thought it had custom knobs too...

Found it PS 3680...amazing! Check the show your PS thread for pics...I'm on my phone right now.

[justmund]

So the scenario is PRSh and co. are sitting around designing the Sig Ltd, have these denser than average hog blanks, they go "you know what, we're sick of making and innovating awesome axes for our legions of adoring fans, let's screw them over and make them believe it's been sitting at the bottom of a lake or river for hundreds of years, they'll never know the difference right? Then if someone calls us on it, we'll just put our hands in the air and say we didn't know" (cue belly laughs all round)

Bloody unlikely story. Honest boo boo and I have accepted the PRS response.

To me, this "issue" doesn't detract from the percieved value, they're all the same (PS aside), however if some had "sinker" and some didn't, then that would be a different story.

I still want one, like really really want one. The only reason I ever thought it was "sinker" by "that" definition is because I read it on BaM (along with all the rave reviews on the tone, the sustain and the versatility of the 408s).

My 0.02c

[TGSCAN]

"My 0.02c"

that is a solid 2 cents ! (sense)

[Daniel]

I own two of these guitars, one Private Stock (#6/100) and one from the limited run. Awesome guitars. I read the specs before I bought them and I was not cheated, deceived nor mislead. I got what I paid for and I certainly got my money's worth and more. I've read enough to know that "sinker" is nothing more than a marketing term. There is no industry standard definition of sinker wood. PRS never assigned any age to the wood used in these necks. Some people may have read the word "sinker" and put their own meaning on the word based on what they'd read in sales literature for other products or the internet () but that is their own failure, not PRS'. Had PRS claimed, "This is mahogany from a tree cut in 1875 that spent 135 years at the bottom of a swamp in Honduras and was recovered in 2010" then I think there would have been deception. They made no such claim. PRS rocks.

[Faded]

I own two of these guitars, one Private Stock (#6/100) and one from the limited run. Awesome guitars. I read the specs before I bought them and I was not cheated, deceived nor mislead. I got what I paid for and I certainly got my money's worth and more. I've read enough to know that "sinker" is nothing more than a marketing term. There is no industry standard definition of sinker wood. PRS never assigned any age to the wood used in these necks. Some people may have read the word "sinker" and put their own meaning on the word based on what they'd read in sales literature for other products or the internet () but that is their own failure, not PRS'. Had PRS claimed, "This is mahogany from a tree cut in 1875 that spent 135 years at the bottom of a swamp in Honduras and was recovered in 2010" then I think there would have been deception. They made no such claim. PRS rocks.

You are right PRSh made no claim, but his artist did...

Check at the 3:00 minute mark and then tell me Paul didn't know what "Sinker" meant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_2Pv...e_gdata_player

I don't think it matters either way to the tone of these great instruments and I'd like to own one someday, but the notion that Paul was ignorant and just didn know is BS.

[GC Ron]

You are right PRSh made no claim, but his artist did...

Check at the 3:00 minute mark and then tell me Paul didn't know what "Sinker" meant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_2Pv...e_gdata_player

I don't think it matters either way to the tone of these great instruments and I'd like to own one someday, but the notion that Paul was ignorant and just didn know is BS.

Whoops.

[Daniel]

You are right PRSh made no claim, but his artist did...

Check at the 3:00 minute mark and then tell me Paul didn't know what "Sinker" meant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_2Pv...e_gdata_player

I don't think it matters either way to the tone of these great instruments and I'd like to own one someday, but the notion that Paul was ignorant and just didn know is BS.

I have no way to know what Paul Smith knew. Neither do you. I know what Paul said he knew and I am not going to call him a liar. Here's something you surely can do; please define "sinker mahogany".