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Thread: "Sinker" on Sigs

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    I have no way to know what Paul Smith knew. Neither do you. I know what Paul said he knew and I am not going to call him a liar. Here's something you surely can do; please define "sinker mahogany".
    It's been well defined within the last 17 pages and Mr Grissom gave a rather in depth definition of the term according to his conversations with Paul which is in direct contrast to the statement released by PRSh recently. I leave you to make your own conclusions.
    Last edited by Faded; 05-29-2012 at 12:48 AM.
    Chasing Fragile Harmonics...

  2. #162
    Senior Member veinbuster's Avatar
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    The only thing all of this makes me wonder is where is the cause and affect that results in a god sound. I suspect that what makes the neck sound good is that it was heavy enough to have been under water, not that it actually was under water.
    I wonder how long it would take to run a proper experiment.

  3. #163
    Senior Member 11top's Avatar
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    Sh*tter's full

  4. #164
    Pincher of Harmonics Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faded View Post
    You are right PRSh made no claim, but his artist did...

    Check at the 3:00 minute mark and then tell me Paul didn't know what "Sinker" meant...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_2Pv...e_gdata_player

    I don't think it matters either way to the tone of these great instruments and I'd like to own one someday, but the notion that Paul was ignorant and just didn know is BS.
    Wow. Kind of hard to marry that description with Shawn's response. This reminds me of Steve Jobs denying anything was wrong with ip4's antenna, telling the consumer they are holding the phone incorrectly. Eventually that blew over and people continued to buy iPhones just as before. I'm sure the same will happen here. Just wish they wouldnt have taken the "we didnt know" stance, when there's a video obviously contradicting that.

    But alas, I buy guitars because of the way they sound, feel, and look. Not because the head of the company is a holy and righteous person devoid of ego.
    12 408 - 12 DGT - 09 Tremonti II - 98 CU24 - 97 CE22 - Mesa MarkIV - Kemper Profiler Amp - EVH 5150 III - PRS Archon

  5. #165
    Searching for the sound tdarian's Avatar
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    I think I'll get a big necked Tele type until this blows over.
    If I Told You All That Went Down It Would Burn Off Both Of Your Ears

  6. #166
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faded View Post
    It's been well defined within the last 17 pages and Mr Grissom gave a rather in depth definition of the term according to his conversations with Paul which is in direct contrast to the statement released by PRSh recently. I leave you to make your own conclusions.
    No, it hasn't. Please define sinker mahogany. David Grissom's rambling description is at odds with descriptions you can find elsewhere and it is clear he is not an expert in the field.
    Last edited by Daniel; 05-29-2012 at 05:04 PM.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    David Grissom's rambling description
    ...Which he was quoting from Paul...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    is at odds with descriptions you can find elsewhere
    ...Elsewhere...like in Paul's recent video description. One information source (Paul) two conflicting definitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    it is clear he is not an expert in the field.
    Absolutely correct. He's a guitar player and never claims to be anything other, but in the video he is recalling his conversation with an expert.
    Chasing Fragile Harmonics...

  8. #168
    Pincher of Harmonics Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    No, it hasn't. Please define sinker mahogany. David Grissom's rambling description is at odds with descriptions you can find elsewhere and it is clear he is not an expert in the field.
    Since you seem to be an authority, perhaps YOU could provide the definition of sinker mahogany and how it differs from Grissom's "rambling description."
    Frankly, I think his "rambling description" seemed pretty accurate, in comparison to the limited "definitions" of this term. Maybe you have superior Google skills or an extensive woodworking resume, and can educate us.
    12 408 - 12 DGT - 09 Tremonti II - 98 CU24 - 97 CE22 - Mesa MarkIV - Kemper Profiler Amp - EVH 5150 III - PRS Archon

  9. #169
    Bobble Head Moderator JMintzer's Avatar
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    Round and round we go...




    Jamie

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by JMintzer View Post
    Round and round we go...




    Jamie
    Here's an idea: organize everyone into two teams, give 'em uniforms and guns, and host a little war!

    Put some bleachers out in the sun, and have it on Highway 61.

    The mods could serve as the International Red Cross during the conflict, and the International War Crimes Tribunal afterward.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMintzer View Post
    Round and round we go...




    Jamie

  12. #172
    Senior Member Dirty Bob's Avatar
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    Funny you mentioned a war Les...I can't tell if this is just about Sinker still...or also has something to do with Markie's feces throwing monkeys.

    So I shall try it one more time.

    I like pie...since apple apparently didn't work how about peach?

    Again I just think people need to be a bit more civil. Nothing wrong with productive discussion or disagreements...just feces throwing monkeys.

    The other issue I have with this thread or the other threads in relation to all of this is that it has caused a lot of other good productive conversation that is typical of this community to be tossed carelessly on the back burner.

    So...
    I want some sticky gooey peach pie goodness...anyone else with me? Playing guitar and delving into a nice peach pie...sure sounds better to me than trying desperately to one up eachother on an Internet forum.
    Last edited by Dirty Bob; 05-29-2012 at 08:22 PM.
    -Bob

  13. #173
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    All I know is that I purchased one of these (my first of 2) when they hit the retailers. I looked through the case candy as I was trying it out, and the term "sinker" was used on the certificate. I asked the sales guy what that meant, and he clearly stated that it wasn't reclaimed wood from underwater, but was just a marketing term used to convey the fact that it was dense. This, well before any of this controversy. It didn't mean much to me personally since I'd never heard of "sinker" wood, and didn't know that it had any meaning in the luthier business. Point is that if the sales guy knew what it was, and was telling customers what it was, it doesn't seem likely that there was some sort of master plan to dupe the public. Educated retailers knew enough to accurately describe the product, so they at least must have been told what it was.

  14. #174
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faded View Post
    ...Which he was quoting from Paul...



    ...Elsewhere...like in Paul's recent video description. One information source (Paul) two conflicting definitions.



    Absolutely correct. He's a guitar player and never claims to be anything other, but in the video he is recalling his conversation with an expert.
    Grisson never said he was quoting anyone and he never said his only information came from Mr. Smith. He only said he first heard of it from Mr. Smith. The only word we have from Paul Smith is what is in the video he made and he did not conflict himself. Please define sinker mahogany.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Since you seem to be an authority, perhaps YOU could provide the definition of sinker mahogany and how it differs from Grissom's "rambling description."
    Frankly, I think his "rambling description" seemed pretty accurate, in comparison to the limited "definitions" of this term. Maybe you have superior Google skills or an extensive woodworking resume, and can educate us.
    Waiting for the expert to stop evading the question. I am not an expert and that's why I asked for an industry standard definition. You say Grissom's description is "pretty accurate" so you must know the definition. Please share.

  15. #175
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMintzer View Post
    Round and round we go...




    Jamie
    Yes Jamie, I know. I've read enough BS about this too so I though I'd call the question. People keep writing that Paul Smith knew this made-up marketing term to mean something other than what he has said (calling him a liar) so I'd like them to state the official definition (and of course they'll need to give an authortative source). No takers. Go figure.

  16. #176
    Junior Member SuperFly53's Avatar
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    Played my SigLtd for a couple of hours tonight. The thing is a monster! I felt a little let down initially with the "sinker controversy," but there is no way I would give it back for a refund. I could not replace this guitar with a better one. It is far and away the best PRS I have ever had (and I have had many).

    Who's to say that this "sinker" mahogany is not better tonally than sinker mahogany??

    I'll go one better and say that I would not trade my guitar for one like it with mahogany that was recovered from sunken old growth because I don't think it could sound any better.

  17. #177
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Wacka wacka!

  18. #178
    Eriza Verde
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    I see why this is going on,

    Now instead of it being PRSh deception or not, now its moved to people trying to figure out if David G is correct in saying sinker is sunken mahogany and if his authority and expertise is right in saying that definition

    or debating that PRSh and his artist aren't reading the same script in the marketing . . .

    then you have people debating that sinker mahogany is NOT drawn from mahogany that was underwater and pulled up to be used in the guitar because David G's sources or David G is 'just a player and not a tree biologist or ax men or wood worker'.

    But regardless of the debate, sinker mahogany is wood that was sunken underwater (for a time).

    and black is black that's a fact.

    and if it plays right, sounds right, it should be kept . . . right!

    regarding PRSh's definition and if it was done intentionally or not well go back and on other forums about this debate . ..

    But its really funny though if you play one then go to other. the Songify guy should make a video on the two:

    David G
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_2PvOZqwbo


    PRSh
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3nKxOZQpuM
    In fact, the law makes your employer responsible for PRSI, though you may have to pay an employee's share. The amount of PRSI paid by you and your employer depends on your social insurance class.

  19. #179
    Angry Southern Gentleman Hopeful Sinner's Avatar
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    OK, I've followed this thread and kept a lid on my beef with PRS but no more! Mine also deals with a deception involving Mr Smith and Mr Grissom... I recently bought a DGT Standard and I love how it plays, love how it looks and love how it sounds. Here's the issue, I can't seem to locate the "T" on my "DGT".. Not sure if they are all this way, but mine does have a vibrato, but no tremolo?!? So, now I want reparation!

    A new TRC should suffice. One that says "DGV" to be exact.

    Oh, and a video explanation from Paul too and then I'll be happy.

    Wait one more thing, my last demand is PIE.. For the love of all that is good, please give us PIE...
    -Jon

    "I'm a sinner and I hope I never change"

  20. #180
    Senior Member cosmic_ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    All I know is that I purchased one of these (my first of 2) when they hit the retailers. I looked through the case candy as I was trying it out, and the term "sinker" was used on the certificate. I asked the sales guy what that meant, and he clearly stated that it wasn't reclaimed wood from underwater, but was just a marketing term used to convey the fact that it was dense. This, well before any of this controversy. It didn't mean much to me personally since I'd never heard of "sinker" wood, and didn't know that it had any meaning in the luthier business. Point is that if the sales guy knew what it was, and was telling customers what it was, it doesn't seem likely that there was some sort of master plan to dupe the public. Educated retailers knew enough to accurately describe the product, so they at least must have been told what it was.
    There's your answer.

    /thread

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