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Thread: Recording Amp Volume Levels

  1. #21
    Since I don't know the voices, I can't really tell much about the auto tuning.

    Technically, the vocals cut through well, and the lyrics are intelligible. There's a too much processing on the guitars as you say, and that probably forced the engineer to use a lot of compression to get things to sit right. You guys did a good job performing regardless of the other issues.

    It's hard to make two strummed steel string acoustic guitars sound interesting, so maybe that's why the guy messed with them so much. For a recording, it might have been better if he'd simply had one of you try a Nashville tuning, or play a 12 string, or try a nylon string, to keep it natural, instead of messing with modulation effects.

    A standup bass might have balanced things out for the recording, too, in a natural way.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

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  2. #22
    Senior Member veinbuster's Avatar
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    Very useful.
    I hope I can find the thread when I need it.

  3. #23
    Narrowfield P'kup Hoarder HANGAR18's Avatar
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    THis is the greatest thread ever!
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  4. #24
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    It's hard to make two strummed steel string acoustic guitars sound interesting, so maybe that's why the guy messed with them so much. For a recording, it might have been better if he'd simply had one of you try a Nashville tuning, or play a 12 string, or try a nylon string, to keep it natural, instead of messing with modulation effects.

    A standup bass might have balanced things out for the recording, too, in a natural way.
    Singer-songwriters were the hardest sessions when I ran my studio, there's only so much you as an engineer or a producer can do... it all really boils down to the songs and the performance.

    Having been on both sides of the glass I really gotta say that chemistry between the artist and engineer/producer is something that the artist needs to shop around for. One dude will put too much chorus on everything and the next dude will suggest an upright bass and a guitar that may have little to do with your sound and its genre... I know 'cause I've had it done to me and I've done it to clients too.

    I don't want to come off as harsh to either the musicians or the engineers because there are instances where both can be equally as clueless, but unfortunately there aren't a lot of places that'll let you try before you buy. You have to go with what your budget dictates and hopefully some decent references from other musicians you respect, it'd be cool to have a producer that shows up to your rehearsals but you should be prepared to pay for it.

    As for the recording: Sounds alright. Maybe not the vibe I would go for, but I don't think it's embarrassingly cheesy.

  5. #25
    A♥ hoards guitars A♥ rugerpc's Avatar
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    I have been reading biographies of the various Beatles. Towards the end, when they were fragmenting, they were all recording in separate studios much of the time with little to no interactions. The only way they got through the final sessions was with the aid of a very chipper Billy Preston in the studio.

    And they made a mistake. The let Phil Spector mix Let I Be. He really changed the sound away from what they were going for. So much so that Paul remixed Let It Be much later to give us Let It Be - Naked, which is supposed to be more like the way the Beatles originally wanted it.

    So it is not surprising that finding the right engineer and the right producer for your band can be such a daunting, hit or miss thing. If the Beatles can stumble, it can happen to anyone.
    Last edited by rugerpc; 05-07-2014 at 04:34 PM. Reason: dak
    Thbbbbbt...
    Check it out: Phillybri used to have a band: Resonance But he's soooo over them now!
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rugerpc View Post
    The only way they got through the final sessions was with the aid of a very chipper Billy Preston in the studio.
    Not many people know this, but I played the role of Billy Preston in the Let It Be movie.

    Acting!
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  7. #27
    Name Manglin' Putz alantig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Acting!


    Genius!
    Alan

    "I watched approximately 45 seconds of 'Rock Of Ages'. It was like getting punched in the soul." - Abby Krizner

  8. #28
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    I'll give you guys an idea of what I was dealing with:






    Tight confines, but a really well built facility. Beautiful, actually. I'm honored to have this opportunity and I want to squeeze the best results from it, if possible.


    Aristotle, IMO, an unqualified one at that, the vocal recording sounded pretty darned good. And like Les mentioned, the guitars may be heavily processed but it's not bad, just a matter of taste. The performance is excellent. We are our own worst critics.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  9. #29
    A♥ hoards guitars A♥ rugerpc's Avatar
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    Nice 'fro, Les!



    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post

    Aristotle, IMO, an unqualified one at that, the vocal recording sounded pretty darned good. And like Les mentioned, the guitars may be heavily processed but it's not bad, just a matter of taste. The performance is excellent. We are our own worst critics.
    Yeah, what he said!
    Last edited by rugerpc; 05-07-2014 at 08:40 PM.
    Thbbbbbt...
    Check it out: Phillybri used to have a band: Resonance But he's soooo over them now!
    Lexicon
    ísɹǝqɯǝɯ uɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ oןןǝɥ

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by rugerpc View Post
    Nice 'fro, Les!

    Thank you! What's amazing is that I even look the part in a photograph!

    Acting!
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  11. #31
    Hey Boogie, that's one heck of a nice looking studio.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  12. #32
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    Here's a shocker...I've been pondering options for this weekend's overdubbing. In my cave I've run several experiments - or as much as one person can handle - with direct boxes, mic locations, mic EQs, etc. If you remember, I mentioned a "fizziness" with the first track that really bothered me. That was the DI box track tacking the signal directly from my pedal board. Who would use that for anything but re-amping? The other track was a single SM57 dangling from the top of the amp. IMO and extremely limited experience, this doesn't seem like an ideal method for accurate capture. So, I'm going with the most tried-n-tru components for my best tone...SuperD re-voiced for reduced bass, pine 2x12 cab, DGT. Maybe the ES-335. A good performance will be my focus and hope that I'll be able to spread out a little in the booth, and get a setup as close to a live stage situation as possible.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    Here's a shocker...I've been pondering options for this weekend's overdubbing.
    No need to overthink it. Just do this:



    The picture is of the great producer/engineer Michael Wagener's live room (Alice Cooper, Dokken, Megadeth, Metallica, Motley Crue, to King's X and even Janet Jackson). His amps are in a floor-to-ceiling rack in the control room, except for the one in the pic, and hooked to a special high power patching matrix that allows him to patch each of the amps to one (or more via another device in his rig that handles the resistive load) of the different speaker cabs. The player plugs in while in the control room, and they go through the amps and cabs one by one to decide which one to use. Interestingly, none of the amps are Marshalls!

    Most of the mics in this shot are Royer 121s (he calls them THE guitar mic), but he also has some Shure ribbons (the Crowley and Tripp mics that were bought by Shure), and an SE Rupert Neve ribbon. There's one dynamic mic on the right in the picture. The ribbons are angled to protect the ribbon element from damage from sound pressure levels coming from the speaker cones.

    Michael also has a service where you can send him a DI feed, and he'll record it through his rig, soup to nuts, and send you a record-quality track(!). Of course, the service isn't free, but it's also not expensive considering you get guitar tones from a master most widely known for his guitar tones.

    Hey, my live room looks exactly like his!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    That was the DI box track tacking the signal directly from my pedal board. Who would use that for anything but re-amping?
    Re-amping is what you use it for. Shouldn't sound fizzy, though, it should be a clean signal of the guitar, only, so you can also re-amp the pedals (you want to make sure the pedals are dialed in for the amp that's doing the re-amping). The DI box should come before the rest of the pedals. Most DI's have a "through" that lets you take the direct signal, and then connect to everything else as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    The other track was a single SM57 dangling from the top of the amp.
    Wow, everyone has their technique, but that's not the most efficient way to capture sound with a 57.

    A 57 is a cardioid mic that is designed to reject sounds that are off-axis. Hanging the mic off the amp obviously results in the mic's grille being off-axis, and the result is that the frequency response of the mic was compromised. In other words, the mic was in a suboptimal position to "hear" the speaker based on its design.

    Bring a mic stand and clip with you just in case the guy doesn't have one.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 05-13-2014 at 09:27 AM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  14. #34
    A♥ hoards guitars A♥ rugerpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    The other track was a single SM57 dangling from the top of the amp. IMO and extremely limited experience, this doesn't seem like an ideal method for accurate capture.
    Gaaaa

    That made me sit up too. What was he thinking???

    ^^^^ What Les says....
    Thbbbbbt...
    Check it out: Phillybri used to have a band: Resonance But he's soooo over them now!
    Lexicon
    ísɹǝqɯǝɯ uɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ oןןǝɥ

  15. #35
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugerpc View Post
    Gaaaa

    That made me sit up too. What was he thinking???

    ^^^^ What Les says....
    I know, right??!! I was trying SO hard not to come off a total jerk out of the gate but I felt slighted or just plain pandered to. There's no sense in doing it at all if it's going to be sh*t.

    But, there's no need to go cocked and ready, so I will go equipped with an SM57, a mic stand, a Hughes and Kettner Red Box and the gumption to set it up how I want. Maybe I'll get mad enough to pull off one of those Leslie West-style bashing the guitar with my hands-like solos.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  16. #36
    Just a member JustRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    No need to overthink it. Just do this:


    Go to Aristotle's place?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
    Go to Aristotle's place?
    Hahaha!

    Aristotle doesn't like Royers, so there's that.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  18. #38
    Senior Member sergiodeblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Wow
    Quote Originally Posted by rugerpc View Post
    Gaaaa
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    sh*t.
    What the...

    There are a few issues that make me think this isn't the dude you're looking for, are you paying for this?

  19. #39
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiodeblanc View Post
    What the...

    There are a few issues that make me think this isn't the dude you're looking for, are you paying for this?
    Trade for trade. The objective is to cut a demo with a handful of songs that fade out at 30 seconds. If we get a reasonable performance and a reasonable mix and reasonable final engineering, I'll be happy...-ish.

    Tomorrow I cut the solos. We'll see how my mic suggestions go over. If it is a vast improvement I may record another layer of rhythm. It may depend on how many takes I need.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  20. #40
    It'll be interesting to see how the session went!

    Speaking of sessions, my son convinced me to give a Sennheiser MD421 a shot with my guitar amp. I was never a 421 guy, but he got such great results on the Mars album that I gave it a go.

    I've only ever used 421s on toms and bass amps.

    It's funny, by itself the track doesn't have the punch of an SM57 track, or the depth of a Royer track, but the track with the 421 sits in the mix really well with other instruments, and leaves plenty of room for the bass, drums, etc.

    Learn something every day! Go figure. My son was right!

    Another tool in the ol' toolbox.

    Although I'm once again reminded that Sennheiser designed a classic mic back in 1960, and coupled it with a brilliant idea for a stand mount. The only problem is that they executed the stand mount so poorly that they break, fall off, etc., and always have. In fact, this is the one common complaint about the mic. You'd think that after 54 years, and a Mark II version, they'd have come up with a mount that actually is solid (they do have a shock mount, but come on, a shock mount for a dynamic mic is something that just isn't necessary in most situations.

    OK, rant mode off.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 05-18-2014 at 05:17 PM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

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