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Thread: There Is No "If Only" With These Amps!

  1. #1

    There Is No "If Only" With These Amps!

    I'm working on an ad project with both the HXDA and the DG30 this weekend. And I'm using the amps at the volumes they were intended to be used, which is to say, gig-loud.

    That's pretty loud, but not so loud that the neighbors are complaining.

    What strikes me about both amps is that I never think, "Gosh, if only I could get these amps to do this other thing..."

    This particular project involves very heavy rock. Much heavier than is my usual thing. While the amps are very gainy in and of themselves, I'm also shaping the tone with pedals because that's what I do. And I'm getting exactly what I want (and more importantly, what the client wants).

    I know I'm repeating myself all the time, but I am really, really happy with these amps!

    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member jfb's Avatar
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    I'd be interested to hear the outcome of these amps used for this type of project. Sounds like fun.
    Plank Owner

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    I'd be interested to hear the outcome of these amps used for this type of project. Sounds like fun.
    Heh. If you watch football on TV you'll be hearing it every game come fall, and you'll be sick to death of it.

    Ford F-150.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member jfb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Heh. If you watch football on TV you'll be hearing it every game come fall, and you'll be sick to death of it.

    Ford F-150.
    I don't do TV or football. I'll YouTube for it though.
    Plank Owner

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    I don't do TV or football. I'll YouTube for it though.
    No football?

    I never watch pro football, but I go to (or watch on TV) every Michigan game. I don't know what I'd do with myself in fall otherwise.

    Here's a link to one we did last year:

    http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7Zn0/2013-ford-f-150-torque
    Last edited by LSchefman; 06-15-2014 at 03:06 PM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  6. #6
    Three Tube Night:



    Tube traps are bass traps that also absorb mid and high frequencies to a lesser degree as they have diffusers built in. They absorb enough energy that I can crank the amp pretty loud and any remaining harsh room resonances are tamed. I just stick the mic boom in between them and hit "record" (I took the pic before placing the mic).

    I arrange these three traps in a semi-circle around the front of the amp, with the "more absorption" side facing the speakers for less upper midrange, or facing out for more sparkle. Here the absorption is facing in because I want a very heavy sound without too much upper midrange. They help to isolate the cab and keep the volume down as well.

    The cab is also sitting on an Auralex Gramma riser and an Isoacoustics IsoL8tr. This combination of stuff works well for recording. Just wanted to share how I do it.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member aduayer's Avatar
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    I recently got a DG30 and couldn't be happier. Had a 2 Channel "H" for a while and it's a very good amp, but I am much happier with the DG30. I found out that the most difficult part in an amp, at least for me, is to find the "core sound". I mean, the sound that all the other gain structures and effects will help me build what I want.
    So the amp must interact nice with pedal effects and have dynamics. I really feel myself at home with the DG30. Found very easily the almost breaking clean sound that I love then fine tune the boos, drive and distortion sounds. Never liked send/return kind of thing, so this amp is perfect for wha tI need/want. I think it's one of the few gears I have that is 100% stock. Didn't changed anything and I don't see myself doing it.

  8. #8
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    "There Is No "If Only" With These Amps! "

    If only you had an Archon, you might feel differently Kidding aside, I know what you mean...

  9. #9
    Senior Member aduayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    "There Is No "If Only" With These Amps! "

    If only you had an Archon, you might feel differently Kidding aside, I know what you mean...
    I am thinking about getting an Archon... then I would have more color palettes

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    "There Is No "If Only" With These Amps! "

    If only you had an Archon, you might feel differently Kidding aside, I know what you mean...
    Yeah, it's also true that different amps have different colors and more is always cool!

    To borrow aduayer's phrase, the "core sounds" of the PRS amps aren't missing anything. I never think, "if only this amp had a more buttery break up," or "this thing needs to sound tighter."

    Actually, an Archon would be a great amp to have in the studio for the very project I'm working on, and one's in the plan for later this year. But first...I am working hard on putting in and testing acoustic treatment.

    These days I have to be more careful with where the money goes.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  11. #11
    Senior Member Rango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSchefman View Post
    Yeah, it's also true that different amps have different colors and more is always cool!

    To borrow aduayer's phrase, the "core sounds" of the PRS amps aren't missing anything. I never think, "if only this amp had a more buttery break up," or "this thing needs to sound tighter."

    Actually, an Archon would be a great amp to have in the studio for the very project I'm working on, and one's in the plan for later this year. But first...I am working hard on putting in and testing acoustic treatment.

    These days I have to be more careful with where the money goes.
    Looking forward to hearing the PRODUCT!
    I'm really interested in the DG30 - It looks like it might be a fantastic amp to gig with...

    I'm also interested in what you learn about what works and doesn't with the room treatments. I'm overdue to treat my practice room...
    If I thought I was going to live this long I'd have taken better care of myself!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rango View Post
    I'm also interested in what you learn about what works and doesn't with the room treatments. I'm overdue to treat my practice room...
    My room treatments are designed for particular mixing and recording issues.

    The black ASC Tube Traps you see in the picture are pure bass traps, and they work pretty well. To keep them from absorbing too much high end and making the room or something in front of them too dull, on one side they have high frequency diffusers built in. But I don't really have enough of them left for truly effective use; you need at least 8-10 of them, and I'm down to four. I had more that over the years were damaged, and I got rid of the damaged ones. However at $500+ apiece, coupled with the fact that a 4 foot by one foot cylinder in the middle of the room isn't very attractive, I've decided to go in a different direction.

    Tube Traps don't cover a lot of room surface, so I'm moving to RealTraps for both HF absorption and bass trapping. RealTraps are every bit as well made as the Tube Traps, but hang on the wall instead of taking up floor space on a stand.

    Both the RealTraps and the Tube Traps are significantly more effective than foam absorbers. The foam stuff is OK if you're short of cash, but not only is its performance limited to higher frequencies, I found that even the good Auralex stuff tends to disintegrate after a while, and it needs to be glued to the walls with adhesive that is very difficult to remove if you need to move things around or replace a panel. I had Auralex in my old studio's vocal booth. Never again.

    In a small room like mine (about 14.5 x 30) bass trapping becomes essential in the corners of the room. I've got some RealTraps Mini Traps coming to handle that, there will be two in each corner of the room, and the Tube Traps will only be used for spot duty in front of guitar cabs. Having two in each corner not only maximizes the amount of bass trapping that will go on, it'll also help tame room reflections.

    Second in importance to bass trapping is absorption of excess reflection, and I've been testing RealTraps Micro Traps, 4 feet x2 feet at the first reflection point of my monitors, and am really happy with them, so now I'm a believer. I don't want the room too dead, so these are at first reflection points in the workstation area, and more will be spaced a few feet apart in the recording area when they arrive.

    In this shot of the workstation area, you can see two of my Tube Traps in the corners for bass absorption, and two of the RealTraps Microtraps along the side walls for first reflection point absorption. There's actually a mathematical formula for placing the reflection absorbers once you've measured all the variables.



    Eventually, I'll also install true diffusors on the rear wall of the studio, but again, the expense is considerable. And diffusion is sort of "icing on the cake" since my listening area is 20 feet from the rear wall; the sound is fairly well scattered by the time it arrives at the rear of my head.

    I don't need to be concerned with soundproofing, it's impossible without some significant construction and specialized materials, and unnecessary for my current situation.

    Everything also depends on how your room sounds. For whatever reason, my room is basically good sounding, even without acoustic treatment. That is, vocals sound real, not boxy, acoustic instruments record well, and electric guitars and basses record well once their ability to rattle the room is tamed with structure isolation.

    So what I'm after is maybe just a bit drier sound, not too much absorption, just enough to tame the very little bit of flutter echo I get without killing the good qualities of the way the room sounds.
    Last edited by LSchefman; 06-18-2014 at 06:51 PM.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member jfb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aduayer View Post
    I recently got a DG30 and couldn't be happier. Had a 2 Channel "H" for a while and it's a very good amp, but I am much happier with the DG30. I found out that the most difficult part in an amp, at least for me, is to find the "core sound". I mean, the sound that all the other gain structures and effects will help me build what I want.
    So the amp must interact nice with pedal effects and have dynamics. I really feel myself at home with the DG30. Found very easily the almost breaking clean sound that I love then fine tune the boos, drive and distortion sounds. Never liked send/return kind of thing, so this amp is perfect for wha tI need/want. I think it's one of the few gears I have that is 100% stock. Didn't changed anything and I don't see myself doing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
    "There Is No "If Only" With These Amps! "

    Interesting to hear you say. There's something about the DG amps I think. DG can make a brick sound good, but on his DG it's just so right.

    If only you had an Archon, you might feel differently Kidding aside, I know what you mean...
    Coming from the lord of amps no doubt! Seriously...next time I am in MD...
    Plank Owner

  14. #14
    SuperD Boogie's Avatar
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    That ad was surprisingly heavy, Les. Tough to gear on my iPad but the brutz rang thru! I get why you like this line of work.

    I'm putting your acoustics tutelage into practice. Bass traps will go into place after I get the rest of the insulation work complete. I love these threads.
    + '01 Custom 24 + '11 DGT Standard (Mr. Clean) + '09 SE One + Super Dallas + Stealth 2x12+

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie View Post
    That ad was surprisingly heavy, Les. Tough to gear on my iPad but the brutz rang thru! I get why you like this line of work.

    I'm putting your acoustics tutelage into practice. Bass traps will go into place after I get the rest of the insulation work complete. I love these threads.
    It's one of the more interesting ad campaigns I've worked on. Per client instruction, the music is a bit wacky because of Denis Leary's sarcastic delivery, they wanted it choppy compared to a typical ad track. The clients love it, and it's been running in various versions for several years. And of course it has that "signature" chord progression at the end with the sound effect.

    Yes to bass traps. They make mixing, tracking, and listening easier if they're placed right. There are lots of good articles on this stuff on the RealTraps site.
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken...

    Website: http://www.elfxi.com

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